Wavy Toes sign of MBD?

[stevoluvmunchkin]

Hello, I am hoping someone here can help me. Is this a sign of MBD? If so how do I reverse it?

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. It could be a sign of mbd or gout. Are you dusting his food with calciumand using a uvb? If so what brand? Tube, coil or compact.

 

[stevoluvmunchkin]

I feed him collard, turnip, and mustard greens everyday dusted with calcium and I add vitamins three days a week. He also gets superworms everyday. He has a hi output reptisun that I replace every 6 months.

 

[CooperDragon]

That looks like Gout to me but would need to be tested to tell for sure. I'd have a vet check it out and administer proper treatment as needed. The home treatment for gout is a little bit of black cherry concentrate.

 

[stevoluvmunchkin]

What is gout and how would he have gotten it?

 

[CooperDragon]

It is usually a kidney problem. It results in a buildup in uric acid which usually causes inflammation in lower limbs and joints first. It's similar to arthritis that way. It is likely genetic or could be a sign of a systemic issue. It's not something that he would have caught. It isn't curable as far as I know, but can be treated. The vet can take a sample and run a test to determine if it is gout or not. If it is gout, a medication such as Allopurinol may be prescribed. I'm not saying that this is the issue. I'm not a vet or an expert. I'm just speaking based on my experience with the issue.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That looks like metabolic bone disease & it could also be gout possibly.
Could you run over your tank set up with us? Such as the type & brand of UVB light, temperatures, supplements, etc.
Gout is not curable, but completely manageable if you catch it in the early stages. The best way to determine gout is a blood test. Are you seeing any abnormal swelling of any hands/feet areas on him?
The black cherry juice/extract is very good & is safe to use long term. As suggested, the Allopurinol is highly effective against gout to help break down uric acid crystallization.

What is his diet like?

Tracie

 

[stevoluvmunchkin]

Hello,

That looks like metabolic bone disease & it could also be gout possibly.
Could you run over your tank set up with us? Such as the type & brand of UVB light, temperatures, supplements, etc.
Gout is not curable, but completely manageable if you catch it in the early stages. The best way to determine gout is a blood test. Are you seeing any abnormal swelling of any hands/feet areas on him?
The black cherry juice/extract is very good & is safe to use long term. As suggested, the Allopurinol is highly effective against gout to help break down uric acid crystallization.

What is his diet like?

Tracie

Hello,
I answered some of these questions above but I will answer them again. Right now he is in a 40 x18x18 exo terra with a heat bulb and a reptisun hi output uvb bulb. It is 102 on his basking spot and 90 on the cool side. I do not see any swelling at all on any parts of his body. He looks completely normal apart from the wavy toes on that one foot. I feed him collars, turnip, and mustard greens everyday and sometimes I mix in some shredded carrot or squash. I dust his superworms with calcium everyday, I don't dust his salad because I usually spray it down with water and I don't know how the powder calcium would react to that. I also mix in herptivite three times a week.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Are you using a digital probe or temp gun to measure the temperatures?
Is he one year or under? Giving calcium 5 times per week is fine, does it have D3 or is it without?
The Reptisun HO tube bulb is a great bulb so he wont need D3 routinely. Is it 10-12 inches from him, mounted alongside of a bright white basking light? The heating bulb, is it a bright white light or coated with neodymium?
I would try to get the cooler end temperatures down to a range of 78-82 with the basking of a range of 95-105. He may be a little warm with the cooler end temps being a bit too high.
Dusting his supers is fine & a lot don't like their greens with calcium on it, too. On average, how many does he eat?
If he has gout, you may need to cut back on protein, overall. That is why I was asking about his age. Too high of protein is hard on his kidneys, but 25 or so per week would be fine if he has gout. Does he drink water often? Gout can be caused by hereditary factors, chronic dehydration, supplementation issues, improper temperatures, etc.
I would cut back on the herptivite to 1 time per week if he is an adult & 2 times per week if he is less than 1 year. It could also be too much calcium. The herptivite has calcium in it so the 5 times per week & the herptivite 3 times a week could be too much calcium in his system.
I am glad you aren't seeing any irregular swellings on him though!
How is he doing today?

Tracie

 

[stevoluvmunchkin]

Hello,

Are you using a digital probe or temp gun to measure the temperatures?
Is he one year or under? Giving calcium 5 times per week is fine, does it have D3 or is it without?
The Reptisun HO tube bulb is a great bulb so he wont need D3 routinely. Is it 10-12 inches from him, mounted alongside of a bright white basking light? The heating bulb, is it a bright white light or coated with neodymium?
I would try to get the cooler end temperatures down to a range of 78-82 with the basking of a range of 95-105. He may be a little warm with the cooler end temps being a bit too high.
Dusting his supers is fine & a lot don't like their greens with calcium on it, too. On average, how many does he eat?
If he has gout, you may need to cut back on protein, overall. That is why I was asking about his age. Too high of protein is hard on his kidneys, but 25 or so per week would be fine if he has gout. Does he drink water often? Gout can be caused by hereditary factors, chronic dehydration, supplementation issues, improper temperatures, etc.
I would cut back on the herptivite to 1 time per week if he is an adult & 2 times per week if he is less than 1 year. It could also be too much calcium. The herptivite has calcium in it so the 5 times per week & the herptivite 3 times a week could be too much calcium in his system.
I am glad you aren't seeing any irregular swellings on him though!
How is he doing today?

Tracie

I am using a heat gun. The temperatures in the cool side are usually around the 78 to 82 range but he is in a room with my other reptiles so as the day goes on the room heats up towards the end if the day. He is under a year old. The calcium I currently have has d3 added, I didn't think the herptivite had calcium in it since it says to mix it with calcium before using. His uvb is 10 inches away exactly and the heat bulb is a 60watt heat bulb from the reptile section. He is really good about eating his greens and usually eats them all. He eats 6 regular supers twice a day. He also loves water, he's the only dragon I have that loves being sprayed and licks the water droplets around his cage after I spray.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Great, the heat gun should be accurate for measuring the temps.
The 10 inch distance is fine & the basking light is mounted right beside it then?
That can be hard keeping the temperatures down when it is summer & there are other lights in the room, too.
Since you are using the HO tube bulb, you may want to consider using a calcium without D3. That particular light should allow his system to synthesize enough D3.
I don't have a bottle of herptivite on me, but the older formula did have calcium in it. If you get a chance, check the bottle to see if there is calcium included, along with D3.
His diet sounds fine then for his age. I am glad to hear that he eats his greens regularly also!

Tracie

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Any updates for us on your dragon?


Tracie

 

[stevoluvmunchkin]

His toes are still wavy. I have been trying to find a good place to buy phoenix worms since I had read that they were good at helping signs of MBD. I still don't know what caused his toes to do this but I am trying everything possible to fix it. What are everyones thoughts on liquid calcium over the powdered stuff?

 

[destiny1998]

Liquid calcium is absorbed better then the powder. You can put it in some water or juice like the black cherry .

 

[Taterbug]

His toes are still wavy. I have been trying to find a good place to buy phoenix worms since I had read that they were good at helping signs of MBD. I still don't know what caused his toes to do this but I am trying everything possible to fix it. What are everyones thoughts on liquid calcium over the powdered stuff?

Dusting works for me since the powder designed to "dose" a cricket with the proper amount of calcium. I'm not sure how liquids are dosed relative to the diet.

It doesn't seem like anything is wrong with your diet, MDB is usually related to poor diets low in calcium and/or bad lighting. You have excellent lights and a pretty standard feeding regimen. I think gout would need diagnosis from a vet and appropriate treatment.

Is there a chance he was injured on those fingers?