Thinking of breeding??

[pudden318]

Im BUMPING this

You know it was just brought to my attention about all the breeding questions im the home page tonight. I wish there was some way to post this right on the top of the home page. All the help questions, o no i put my male and female together now what? NOW WHAT? You should have did the research before you made that mistake. Ok so a few nice people on here try to help these people out, and you know what happens they get ticked when you give them advice they dont want to hear. This is so frustrating. Im so sick of hearing about all the money that is to be made. A good breeder doesnt do it for the money but for the love of the animal. It sickens me to see YOUNG kids putting their pets at risk because they think they can make a quick buck. Then what, they cant sell the babies r afford to feed them and they wind up being on craigslist. As a few people have already posted the money that is put up to start breeding is no where near what you are gonna make off of a clutch. The money i have invested so far into my dragons is no where near what im gonna need by next summer to even think about begining to breed. Im not getting into these animals because of the money involved but for the love i have for them, these dragons are one of the only things keeping moving right now. Most mornings it hurts just to get out of bed, but i do, i get up every morning clean 12 vivs, feed 12 dragons, then maintain all my feeder tanks. Am i doing it because i see dollar signs in the future, NO. I do it for the cute little expressions i get for a nummie worm, are the look of a baby hunting a turk, or my most fav is the nightly beardie wiggle when they are all nice and comfie snuggled with me in bed. I guess the point im trying to make is leave the breeding to the breeders and just love your pet unconditionally, dont risk their lives over something stupid.

 

[puffsmama]

MissT wrote:Im sorry bierdieman but are those recent pics of your 2 females? If so I would be VERY VERY cautious about keeping them together! It only takes a second for one to chomp down on the other!!

Yes I do keep an eye on them. Some times I wonder if they get annoyed because I hold them several times a day. I was most concerned when I first put them together my Izzy (the bigger one) was 7 1/2 inches and Spike (the small one) was only 4 1/2 inches. But I watched them very closely and did my research before I put them togather. A lot of people said it would not work out and told me to watch them closely and I did. They have been togather since August and have never even so much as nipped at each other.

But you can't possibly watch them 24/7 and it only takes a split second for something to happen. I would just hate to see anything bad happen when it can be and should be prevented.

 

[aoscar]

Thread merged by request of the OP and with permission of the original OP of this topic
Vicky
Breeding beardies should not be taken lightly. If you are here you are in the right place to learn what you need to know. However you can do everything right and still have problems or lose your dragon
I first got Angel last summer, with the intent to breed her. I had been doing some reading on the subject, and bought her as a proven breeder.

Well she woke up in mid January, and was nice and plump by mid february. I had my male out one day and Angel started nodding and waving like crazy, so I put her in with him and what do you know, they "did their thing".

The first clutch went down without a hitch.

Late into the second clutch, Angel quit eating before she was ready to lay. I took her to the vet as I was afraid she was egg-bound. She was de-calcified, even with ample dietary supplement, and dehydrated even with daily soaks. She was given an infusion to rehydrate her and boost her calcium levels and sent home with liquid calcium. She laid about 4 days later (while I was calling every vet in town looking for a reptile surgeon who peformed emergency lizard spays. Very hard to find, find yours before breeding), but still would not eat. After another trip to the vet she received another infusion and some Baytril for an internal infection she developed. This was 3 days ago.

I went to a meeting last night and came home to find Angel, listless and about 1 minute from death, she seemed to be waiting to see me once more before leaving us.

If you breed these facinating animals, please do plenty of research and have all your supplies ready first. If you are an eaisly stressed person, don't try it. I would reccomend even starting with corns or other colubrids first before diving into beardie breeding.

Find your reptile surgeon first and leave about a $300 retainer with them. Not all reptile vets perform the surgeries, so be prepared.
Most importantly, study, research, and study and research some more. I used about 8 months to study and prepare, I now have close to 40 fertile dragon eggs that I would be more than happy to give up to have my Angel back.

I hope that my loss can serve a higher purpose, and help show that this is not child's play.

 

[Livey]

Unfortunaly thats all people seem to do nowadays..
Im very sorry for your loss...

 

[wingnuts]

I'm very sorry for your loss. Hopefully what you have shared will wake some people up to what is involved in responsible breeding and perhaps discourage some folks who should not be breeding anyways.

Tracy & Stella

 

[aoscar]

I'm very sorry for your loss. Hopefully what you have shared will wake some people up to what is involved in responsible breeding and perhaps discourage some folks who should not be breeding anyways.

Tracy & Stella

Thanks, that is my hope.

Here is the link to her introduction thread:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=112605

 

[Goonie]

[Unlocked by request of OP]

 

[Goonie]

[Unlocked by request of OP]

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Evening All,
Considering the number of posts Im seeing in the breeding section I asked our mods to open a couple posts for me.
PLEASE keep to the topic and keep it polite, Remember this is ME asking it to be kept above board....lol

I just want to add a rough estimate I gave someone today. This doesnt count the cost of internet sites, business cards, tables at shows, or the travel to get there.

Ive done a couple posts about the cost of breeding. It isnt cheap.
Lets stay with the 1 time breeding 1 pair.
Lets keep the number simple. Your girl laid 5 clutches of 20 eggs. 100 babys.
Now this is what I use from start to finnish for this 1 breeding.
3 incubators. 40 to 50 per.
I have 30 bins set up in racks with thier own lighting per bin. 320 dollars to buy just the lights. 300 for bulbs. 100 worth of lumber and materials.120 for just bins.
We are up to 960 just for incubation and holding babys. now to do this right you need to keep each baby till about 6 weeks old.
So it may be possible you have all 100 babys eating at 1 time. Thats about 12 to 15 thousand crickets per week. Plus greens.
Now lets look at the husbandry side. What happens when you have sick babys? And you will. Do you have vet funds? Are you capable of putting a baby down if needed?
This is just the tip of the iceburg, and others can feel free to chime in.
Im not saying you cant make money doing this, but ive been at it awhile now and I dont always turn a profit. Some years its a blessing to break even.
Thanks
Tom

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Evening All,
Considering the number of posts Im seeing in the breeding section I asked our mods to open a couple posts for me.
PLEASE keep to the topic and keep it polite, Remember this is ME asking it to be kept above board....lol

I just want to add a rough estimate I gave someone today. This doesnt count the cost of internet sites, business cards, tables at shows, or the travel to get there.

Ive done a couple posts about the cost of breeding. It isnt cheap.
Lets stay with the 1 time breeding 1 pair.
Lets keep the number simple. Your girl laid 5 clutches of 20 eggs. 100 babys.
Now this is what I use from start to finnish for this 1 breeding.
3 incubators. 40 to 50 per.
I have 30 bins set up in racks with thier own lighting per bin. 320 dollars to buy just the lights. 300 for bulbs. 100 worth of lumber and materials.120 for just bins.
We are up to $960 just for incubation and holding babys. now to do this right you need to keep each baby till about 6 weeks old.
So it may be possible you have all 100 babys eating at 1 time. Thats about 12 to 15 thousand crickets per week. Plus greens.
Now lets look at the husbandry side. What happens when you have sick babys? And you will. Do you have vet funds? Are you capable of putting a baby down if needed?
This is just the tip of the iceburg, and others can feel free to chime in.
Im not saying you cant make money doing this, but ive been at it awhile now and I dont always turn a profit. Some years its a blessing to break even.
Thanks
Tom

 

[Cuda]

I have gone through 60,000+ feeders (crickets and roaches) per clutch of 32 eggs, just getting them to six weeks. She laid six clutches.

Windows calculator says that's 360,000 feeders.

You can make more money shopping for new shoes.

 

[lacy_black]

:lol: I definately laughed over Cuda's line "you can make more money shopping for new shoes"

I agree tho, here and on facebook there's the influx of "breeding" questions and I do try to give help (I absorb everything ya'll say hehe) and the saddest part is so many only want to hear what they want and they don't want the truth. Then when they find out the reality it's through error and they come back begging people for help.

1 chick got downright mean because I nicely (least everyone agreed I was nice) told her that her babies were too young (both 6 months old) to breed, she messaged me and told me her vet said it was fine! I told her to find a new vet because obviously hers was a *****. I explained the problems she could have, the costs for setup and everything but did no good as I just noticed on the page that her girl is pregnant

 

[fresnowitte]

I'm happy to see this thread unlocked Tom. :wink:

What I personally see is that people will start this hobby just not thinking it out an it's amazing how many people actually go into this with a get rich quick attitude...those are a Dilution of Grangeur people. You may have all the set ups and incubator, but seriously the feeders and time is much more than most would even imagine. It's a full time job with a part time pay and lots of expenses along the way.(are you willing to eat top ramen so your babies have food? ) It may take every penny you make off each baby just to feed what is left if you are not careful. Not being able to provide enough feeders will take you down...you can't sell babies that are staved and unhealthy. And you must consider what will I do if I can't find forever homes for all the babies? Are you set up and willing to keep or house them that long? Or will you stoop to trading them for food to the local pet stores? What will you heart and morals be able to handle?

An like Tom mentioned which was a great point btw...

What happens when you have sick babys? And you will. Do you have vet funds? Are you capable of putting a baby down if needed?

It took me about 5 years to break even. Getting established is not something that happens overnight.
You have to work hard at it by supplying healthy babies and never losing your morals or good husbandry skills. How many hours a day can you spend cleaning up poop so your babies stay healthy?

When it comes to a point that you do this only for money and not for the joy....then in my opinion your in it for the wrong reasons. Don't get me wrong we all need to eat and make money...but that shouldn't be what drives you. If you aren't striving to produce healthy big babies then you are hurting the beardie trade and their destination.

Now I'm off to rag on someone for intentionally breeding a female that was a baby.
Hmmm...lets make money off this beardie who cares about her health.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Im just keeping this thread to the top because I think there is some good info in here.
Maybe my 2 threads should be merged since they are so simular??

 

[fresnowitte]

Maybe my 2 threads should be merged since they are so simular??

That's what I was thinking. :wink: