HARD URATE ??

[Friscoandlilly]

My beaded dragons urate is always hard and has a yellowish colour at one end of it what does this mean ?

 

[Goonie]

Hard urate = too little hydration and/or too much calcium.

How often do you bathe him? Or give him oral fluids?

To start with, bathe him twice a day until his urates are softer, then decrease it down to once a day. If he doesn't like baths, try giving him water from a syringe or pediatric medicine dropper.

 

[Friscoandlilly]

I bath him about twice a week and spray him twice a day with water I provide water bowl fresh every day but in the 10 months iv had him never seen him drink out of it

 

[Goonie]

It's not necessary to give him a water bowl. It only adds extra humidity to his viv which is a leading cause of respiratory infections.
Spraying is only good if he licks enough water off. Otherwise, you're just wasting water. Instead of spraying, use a dropper and give him water that way.

Just so you know, my oldest had always received daily baths, but his urates were still always very hard and chalky. It wasn't until I tried the oral fluids that I realized that he's one of those beardies who doesn't absorb enough moisture via his vent. Now, he'd drink as much as 5 mL of water in one sitting, some days more.

 

[Mustashio]

I don't mean to hijack a post, but my Mustashio is having the same issue. He is about 11months, 16in (with a little tail nip), 413g and viv set up/temps are correct. He used to eat tons of vegis and was a bottomless pit of feeders, eating 30 crix or phoenix worms 2x a day with proper dusting schedule of vitamins and calcium. About a month ago or so, he completely stopped eating ALL vegi's. (He used to eat 2 bowls of vegis a day!) He still goes after crix but not with much enthusiasm. Thought he was possibly going into early brumation, so I had a fecal done and it was negative. He only poops in his bath so he gets daily baths. Used to poop everyday, but now we are down to once every 3d and that is with daily baths and belly massaging. I noticed the last couple of times that his urates have been very yellow at one end, with stringy thing connecting the urates to the poop. I have pictures if you want. I did the paper towel squish test and was suprised to find the urates were rock hard and chalky. Todays urates were nice and white, but still very hard and chalky.

I noticed a moderator, Goonie, said that they had a dragon who just didn't absorb water through his vent despite daily baths, and had to syringe feed water. Pray tell...how the heck do you do that? And how much do you give? I have had some experience in syringe feeding, since Mustashio was very very ill when we first got him as a baby and had stopped eating due to a huge parasite load and calcium deficiency due to no UVB lighting in the pet store. But he (and I) hated the syringe feeding. I have tried giving plain greek yogurt which he will lick a small amount off his nose, but thats it. I gave him a little bit of pumpkin on his nose today, and he had a little bit, but not enough in my opinion for his size. He definitely is not acting himself over the past month, but again, I thought maybe brumation, had a negative fecal and chalked it up to that. But now....

This is my first dragon, but I feel like I'm pretty well educated about stuff, and when I don't know I look to this board or hit the books. As I said, we were not given a great prognosis in his early days, but we nursed him back to his hefty self and now he is giving us something else to be worried about! I also read somewhere that yellowish urates might mean kidney problems and/or too much calcium. What's up with that?

Dang beardies! What would we do if they didn't give us something to stress about, right?

Any insight would be appreciated!
~Jill

 

[Goonie]

I can't remember how we started it all, given it was 4 years ago, but it did take awhile for Pookie to accept the syringe (and the messes I made from plunging too hard). When I finally upgraded to a pediatric medicine dropper, it was nearly foolproof and easiest way to ensure that he was properly hydrated. I'd keep dripping droplets of water until he tells me he's done. Some days he'd drink nearly a whole tablespoon, while other days only 2-3 mL.
I had also trained both of my girls to drink from the medicine dropper, even though they both still get baths (aka "the spa").

 

[diamc]

I have to agree with Gina that the pediatric medicine dropper works great, very easy to control just how much you want to squeeze out too. The beardies actually can start licking as soon as they see the big medicine dropper.

Frequent bathing and oral fluids really do make a big difference in helping the urates to soften up. But if they still remain hard or rubbery even though you are doing those 2 things, it's fine to cut back on the calcium one day a wk to see if then the urates soften up and adjust the calcium accordingly. It's also a good idea to check the basking temperatures too as the change of seasons can affect the tank temps.

 

[Mustashio]

Thats the weird thing though, cuz Mustashio gets daily baths. And since he usually only poops in the bath, (apparently he is a neat freak and doesn't like to go in his viv!) I never really squished it before until recently when he went down to 1 poop every 3 days, which was a far cry from his typical one a day! A couple of months ago he did go in his viv and it was really watery. It left a pool of water on the tile. I figured it was because he had baths daily and it was just too watery. As I said, he usually poops in the bath so I guess I wouldn't really know if it was watery or not at that point!

Temps seem to be okay, as I have paid more attention to them with the cooler weather lately. They are taken with a probe and are around 105 basking spot, 96-98 warm side, 83 cool side. It varies by a few degrees depending on where I put his climb, because I have to take it out to feed him crickets. (It is wood, and the little stinkers love to hide in the knots!) ReptiSun 10 tube was new the end of August, so that should still be okay. Like I said though, he has stopped eating all vegis for the last month or so, and still eats his crix and phoenix worms, although it isn't as voraciously as he usually does. Today I gave him some canned pumpkin on his nose and he licked it a bit, but then when I offered it to him in his viv, he backed away from it and actually ran to the other side of his viv as if it was poison or something!! Kinda reminds me of my kids when they are given their vegi's!!

I'll definitely try the pediatric medicine dropper thing. I am a paramedic in my human life form, so I should be able to wrangle one up! If they don't lick it off the dropper, do you force open their little mouth to squirt it in? Thats kinda what we had to do with Mustashio when he was little and we had to get some critical care in him. He hated it, and so did I, but we will do what we have to I guess! How long did you have to do it for? Especially if he is one of those dragons that just doesnt absorb water through his vent? I can't imagine with daily baths that he isn't getting ANY! But then again, with his refusing his vegis he likely isn't gettng the water droplets or water content from there either! Grrrrr! Worrisome little creatures they are! Its a good thing they are so stinkin' cute and fun to have around!!

~Jill

 

[Mustashio]

Urates were a little bit softer today, but still chalky and slightly firm. At least he pooped again today! Yesterdays pumpkin on the nose must've done the trick! I tried the syringe with water and of course he hated it (and me!). I didn't have a medicine dropper, but I did have a bulb syringe--the thingy they use to suction snot and mucus out of infants nose and mouths (My kids always called it the "booger sucker!"). That seemed to be better since it was a lot softer than a rigid syringe and I didn't feel as bad about trying to pry his mouth open! He even refused to lick it off his nose! STUBBORN!

He still hated it though and gave me the worst stink eye EVER! Had to suck up to him and wrap him in a warm towel and snuggle for awhile after that. Hopefully he will forgive me before dinnertime!! :lol:

Crazy dragon! Here is a picture my son took of me syringe feeding Mustashio when he was about a month old and we had to syringe feed him CriticalCare for a couple weeks cuz he was so sick! So tiny!

 

[Friscoandlilly]

Iv orderd pipettes off amazon because my beardie just refuses to let anything in his mouth when I try force it so they seem like a good idea as they have a tiny tip and you sai you had to give your beardie critical care ? I have a tub of this and my beardie weighs 380g how much critical care formular should I give her and what's the ratio of powder to water or whatever it is that I should mix it with ? Bit confused as to how I should give her it as she is just sitting in cold end of tank and eats no we're near the amount she used to , I gave her it for 2 days mixed with baby food then thought I might be doing this wrong so stopped

 

[Mustashio]

I don't know the exact answer to the dosing dilemma, because it was so long ago, and when that pic was taken he only weighed 11g and I remember having to give him like 0.3ml 2-3x a day. He's 413g now though! I know you mix it with enough water to make it slightly thicker than soup. Think clam chowder without the chunks. I don't think there is a particular science to the ratio of water to powder. It is a food slurry, and not a medication, so I would think that whatever amount you can get them to take would be good.

When my vet showed me how to get Tashi to open his mouth and stick that syringe down his throat I was mortified! It looks so violent! I thought for sure Tashi would HATE me forever after that, but he didn't. The vets trick was to try and hold his head steady (as I am doing in the picture...granted that was easier to do when he was tiny!) then slide the end of the syringe right near the corner crease of his mouth until he opens his jaw a bit and then as soon as he does, stick the end of the syringe almost all the way to the back of his throat and slowly inject it. It was important to get the syringe deep enough so that it went down his throat and not aspirated into his lungs. They will have a tendency to bite and chew on the syringe a bit, so it is awkward and looks awful like you are choking them. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

Now that Tashi is bigger, I kinda have to hold him so that my fingers wrap around his belly and front legs and my palm is almost on his back. He thrashes around a bit until he finally gets the syringe in his mouth and then he is pretty calm about just sucking it down. It still isn't pretty though!

Good luck! It is an awful task, but...the things we do for LOVE!

Jill

 

[Mustashio]

By the way, the syringe you see in the picture is a 1cc/1mL syringe, so the tip is pretty small and you don't feel like your hurting their jaw by opening so wide! That is why I thought a bulb syringe might be better because it is a rubbery tip and softer than the rigid syringe!