D3, Is it necessary?

[Tigg]

My wife is a vet, I didn't inquire as to what levels... I was just clearing up one of my posts where I stated I wasn't sure if too much could be toxic or not.

 

[scion]

Read the study under sunlight and vitamin d. fourth one down, orange button. Vit d3 is toxic in large amounts, but they can regulate also long as they bask under natural sunlight. UV rays help regulate.

 

[Jasper's Mom]

Does your wife specialize in reptiles? I'm not trying to be hostile, just trying to find out how reliable this information is. My vet specializes in reptiles and is one of the foremost reptile veterinarians in Canada. He has told me on many occasions that calcium with D3 is required unless using an MVB.

Now obviously you can overdose them on just about anything - there can be too much calcium, too much vitamin A, too much whatever. But as long as you're not shovelling spoonfuls of calcium powder with D3 down their throats then it's not a concern.

 

[Embee]

With regard to this specific question, I found the following thread EXTREMELY helpful:

http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=98349&p=764473&hilit=Megaray+200#p764473

Perhaps the OP may find it helpful as well.

As to where to get the best information on beardies? This site has saved our beardie, when the published book we had (while helpful), could not. Nevermind just about everything the pet store provided, both in supplies and information. The book we have on beardies, it's only a couple of years old, and it did/does provide decent GENERAL information on set-up, and health and care. The feeding information, particularly with regard to young beardies, was WAY off (an example of a young beardies feeding schedule for instance, stated 6 or 7 bugs a day), which bd.org here helped me to understand. Also, a book cannot provide information on BRANDS, and I believe in the beardie world, brand of supplies (particularly UVB bulbs), is absolutely crucial. We were using an UVB from the start, but not one that could provide what our beardie needed. But I digress... for me, it's been about using a number of different resources, and looking to bd him/herself as to what was giving him/her a better quality of life. There is certainly information available in books, and on the internet which is unhelpful, inaccurate, just plain wrong, even perhaps, dangerous. Personally, I have not found that to be the case on bd.org.

Just my .02 for whatever that's worth. :dontknow:

The best,
Em

 

[Tigg]

Sorry should have clarified that I was speaking from my own knowledge, I just asked her to clarify whether or not excess levels of D3 could be toxic.

I did not mean to sound like a know it all here, I am just going by what I have read and been told over the years of herp care. If things have changed and I failed to keep up to date, or am just wrong I appologize. Hope I did not come across as an a** through my posts, I was rushing through them at work.

 

[bayoupig5]

I just confirmed that D3 in excess can in fact be toxic.

Yeah, I had read that somewhere too, hence my concern about supplementation.

 

[Mistyck]

I just confirmed that D3 in excess can in fact be toxic.

Yeah, I had read that somewhere too, hence my concern about supplementation.

If you aren't using a MVB then you don't have to worry too much about over-supplementation with D3, because you won't need to use the calcium with D3. If you're using a regular UVB bulb then you need to use calcium with D3.

 

[bayoupig5]

For what it is worth I don't think anyone sounded like an a** on this thread. I think there have just been huge differences of opinion, and I am greatful to all of you in your respnses, (because as one of the last posters mentioned...you just can get all the info you need from a book).

 

[bayoupig5]

With regard to this specific question, I found the following thread EXTREMELY helpful:

http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=98349&p=764473&hilit=Megaray+200#p764473

Perhaps the OP may find it helpful as well.

As to where to get the best information on beardies? This site has saved our beardie, when the published book we had (while helpful), could not. Nevermind just about everything the pet store provided, both in supplies and information. The book we have on beardies, it's only a couple of years old, and it did/does provide decent GENERAL information on set-up, and health and care. The feeding information, particularly with regard to young beardies, was WAY off (an example of a young beardies feeding schedule for instance, stated 6 or 7 bugs a day), which bd.org here helped me to understand. Also, a book cannot provide information on BRANDS, and I believe in the beardie world, brand of supplies (particularly UVB bulbs), is absolutely crucial. We were using an UVB from the start, but not one that could provide what our beardie needed. But I digress... for me, it's been about using a number of different resources, and looking to bd him/herself as to what was giving him/her a better quality of life. There is certainly information available in books, and on the internet which is unhelpful, inaccurate, just plain wrong, even perhaps, dangerous. Personally, I have not found that to be the case on bd.org.

Just my .02 for whatever that's worth. :dontknow:

The best,
Em

Thanks maybe I will use Calcium with D3

 

[Embee]

I totally get what you were saying Tigg, btw. The sun is the best provider of D-3, and UVBs are designed to replicate this so... makes sense...

However, it seems the main concern here, is that when using "mechanized sunlight" you aren't getting the real thing, and the varying strength of the different bulbs, suggests that at lower outputs, D-3 supplementation is required.

For what it's worth, I did read a thread here awhile back (I'll try to find it, if I can), that if your Repti-Sun 10.0 is new (less than 2-3 months old), then you may opt to use calcium without D-3, however I believe the general consensus is, that by providing it at one meal 5x per week (3x for adults), having calcium with D-3 isn't going to be harmful/toxic, and most likely, will provide useful supplementation for beardies when using the tube bulbs, where the UVB output is considerably less than the leading MVBs. When I read the thread I linked in my last post, it helped me ascertain just how big the disparity of the UVB output was between the two types of bulbs, and when using a ReptiSun tube, I opted (as most here do I would think), to use the calcium with D-3, and did make sure that my dragon was within 6-8 inches of the bulb for optimum processing of D-3 and calcium.

Again, just my "inexperienced" .02. Would hope someone else would add some more!

The best,
Em

P.S. Oh, and when reading through the thread, I felt that I was reading a healthy debate, and to me, you did not come across as an ***hole. :wink:

 

[Seven65]

I ordered calcium without D3 from the beautifuldragons site.

Their explanation for why they didn't have D3 in their calcium was: "It's a controversial topic, but some researchers believe that vitamin D3, when supplied in vitamin form, is not absorbed by the reptile that eats it. Excess D3 is stored in the liver and can cause potential problems. When a reptile has an adequate supply of calcium, UVB, and a proper diet, there is no need for additional D3 supplementation."

They sited this article http://www.anapsid.org/vitamin.html but that was written primarily for iguanas and i don't know how similar they are to bds.

 

[Jasper's Mom]

I don't think you came off as an @$$ at all Tigg. I hope I didn't either! I think it's great that we have a forum where we can have these types of discussions without it degenerating into name calling, etc. Now all we need is for Tracie to come along and settle the argument! :mrgreen:

 

[scion]

Tigg your definitely not an a*******. You believe something and presented your argument. while i disagree with you, I respect that you are trying to help people. If anyone here is an a******, it's me! Just ask my wife. No wait she'll probably tell you before you could ask.

 

[Beardys Rock]

Sorry to break it to you but I disagree also :roll:

Only and I repeat only should D3 not be provided is with the MVB due to it's high output of UVB.
The reptisun 10.0 I highly doubt would perform very well at 20" :twisted:

 

[bayoupig5]

Thamks, guys, this has been an eye opening informative discussion! I think I will use Calcium with D3, since I am using the Reptisun 10.0, and to take full advantage of the gorgeous Kelowna summers, will take my pet outside, to get the full intensity of UVB fron the sun.