HE NEVER COMES OUT!!!

[chris23039]

hi all i got a new tank and hide and everything about a 2 weeks ago. in the morning i turn the lights on and he will come out to eat then he will go back in his hide until 4 when he comes out to eat again. Is this normal?
Thanks

 

[Embee]

Well no, this isn't normal beardie behavior. Beardie's are usually hard wired to bask for many hours a day. Brumation, when it happens, usually occurs in fall/winter so in spring, this would be a concern. Perhaps the new tank is throwing him off, and he just needs some time to adjust, but just in case... can you tell me a little bit about the set up of the new tank? Specifically:

UVB, what type (tube, coil, compact, MVB) and brand (Arcadia, etc.)?

Also, basking bulb, wattage? What are your tank temps (basking, ambient and cool side), and what are you using to gauge temps?

About your beardie:

What is his age, and size?

That should get us started.

The best,
Em

 

[chris23039]

hi my UVB light is a long tube repti-glo i think. i have a 100w basking bulb which brings the temps to around 42-45.
my beardie is about 14inches and i dont know how old he is.

 

[chris23039]

here are some pics
viewtopic.php?t=103768

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

Hello,

Very nice set up you have and a beautiful beardie on top of that!

You mentioned your temps are 42-45 degrees celsius(107-113 F). Your little guys basking spot should be between 105-110(which I believe would be between 40-43 degrees C). I did notice the tempature gauge you are using, unfortunately those can be off quite a bit. The best way to measure your temps is with a digital thermometer with a wire and probe or an infrared temp gun. Since you are in England I can't suggest the digital one we use here in the states, but Exo Terra has a pretty good digital therm w/wire and probe.

You also mentioned getting a new UVB. The ReptiGLO fluorescent tube is not a great bulb, not only are the uvb emissions low, but it is very harsh on the beardies eyes. Your little guy could be hiding due to his UVB. There is a very good UVB fluorescent called ReptiSUN 10.0. I know they can be hard to come by over there. There is the Arcadia 12%, which is the equivalent to the ReptiSUN that may be easier for you to find.

Hope this helps!

Dawn

 

[Embee]

Hello,

Very nice set up you have and a beautiful beardie on top of that!

You mentioned your temps are 42-45 degrees celsius(107-113 F). Your little guys basking spot should be between 105-110(which I believe would be between 40-43 degrees C). I did notice the tempature gauge you are using, unfortunately those can be off quite a bit. The best way to measure your temps is with a digital thermometer with a wire and probe or an infrared temp gun. Since you are in England I can't suggest the digital one we use here in the states, but Exo Terra has a pretty good digital therm w/wire and probe.

You also mentioned getting a new UVB. The ReptiGLO fluorescent tube is not a great bulb, not only are the uvb emissions low, but it is very harsh on the beardies eyes. Your little guy could be hiding due to his UVB. There is a very good UVB fluorescent called ReptiSUN 10.0. I know they can be hard to come by over there. There is the Arcadia 12%, which is the equivalent to the ReptiSUN that may be easier for you to find.

Hope this helps!

Second this.

Here is a recent thread about the ReptiGlo 10.0 (FYI) viewtopic.php?f=34&t=101703&p=793076&hilit=ReptiGlo+10.0#p793076 In particular, the post made by moderator, Tracie (Drache613) is particularly "illuminating." (Sorry, bad pun). :wink:

The best, and I hope your dragon comes out of hiding soon. In this case, it may very well be a good thing as he's likely keeping his eyes safe, but of course, basking and basking often is a must. I wonder, how close is your UVB to the basking area?

The best,
Em

 

[citrusdragon]

We don't provide hides for any of our dragons. Granted our temps are carefully checked by a temp gun and adjusted seasonally. I find too many health problems can be "hidden" and exacerbated by a sick or stressed dragon in a hide. They need heat and UVB to thrive so we encourage a lot of both.


Jeff

 

[Embee]

We don't provide hides for any of our dragons. Granted our temps are carefully checked by a temp gun and adjusted seasonally. I find too many health problems can be "hidden" and exacerbated by a sick or stressed dragon in a hide. They need heat and UVB to thrive so we encourage a lot of both.


Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I've always been curious about this, and have been wondering about trying it myself. Our beardie basks a TON, but sometimes she gets uptight on certain days and will head into her tunnel where she tends to get "stuck" (figuratively, not literally :mrgreen: ). I usually have to gather her out of there to make sure she gets on with the business of proper digestion. :roll: Often, she'll just dive into some leaves and being that they are around the basking area, she stays warm and under the light to some degree and then, is likely to come out on her own in a short time.

So what you're saying in a sense by not providing a hide, you will be better able to detect any problem with your dragon at a very early stage? For example, in this case (if Dawn and my suspicions are correct) you would see fast and obvious signs of distress associated with poor UVB emissions, rather than the dragon hiding, and you wondering awhile about it, whilst the dragon continues "hiding the problem?" Do I have that right? I admit, in this case it's my first impulse to say that the hide is good because at least beardie can shield his/her eyes, but the argument you make is extremely compelling, I must say.

If you have a moment, I'd love some further elaboration.

The best,
Em

 

[citrusdragon]

To be honest the dragons eyes have not been a concern I have considered. I have not seen any of my dragons develop any eye problems that that I might consider needing shade. I do turn off my basking lights after 9 hours, and my day UVB cycle is 14 hours. I am always concerned that an unhealthy dragon, or distressed would find refuge in a place with lower temps and no UVB. This is a much greater concern of mine with babies and juvies, but after a while I would be equally concerned with adults. It always seems that I see posted many more problems with poor digestion and MBD associated symptoms than those of too much UVB exposure for the eyes. I believe I read even in the case of compact fluorescent bulbs the incidence of eye problems is very rare in dragons.

I am not a vet by any means, but in my experience a distressed dragon can hide and refuse food, get no UVB, and go down hill fast. And if you consider the "distress" might become worse if caused by bacteria or parasites, I prefer to see the dragon get optimum temps and lighting at all times to stimulate the metabolism.

I must say I recommend this to new dragon owners since they all get "sold" hides at the pet store, and I am not in control of the husbandry they provide (mostly the temps they have). A hiding baby can become a dead baby really fast.

I am though very interested in a contrary view if one can be made for the overall health of the dragon.

Jeff

 

[Embee]

To be honest the dragons eyes have not been a concern I have considered. I have not seen any of my dragons develop any eye problems that that I might consider needing shade. I do turn off my basking lights after 9 hours, and my day UVB cycle is 14 hours. I am always concerned that an unhealthy dragon, or distressed would find refuge in a place with lower temps and no UVB. This is a much greater concern of mine with babies and juvies, but after a while I would be equally concerned with adults. It always seems that I see posted many more problems with poor digestion and MBD associated symptoms than those of too much UVB exposure for the eyes. I believe I read even in the case of compact fluorescent bulbs the incidence of eye problems is very rare in dragons.

I am not a vet by any means, but in my experience a distressed dragon can hide and refuse food, get no UVB, and go down hill fast. And if you consider the "distress" might become worse if caused by bacteria or parasites, I prefer to see the dragon get optimum temps and lighting at all times to stimulate the metabolism.

I must say I recommend this to new dragon owners since they all get "sold" hides at the pet store, and I am not in control of the husbandry they provide (mostly the temps they have). A hiding baby can become a dead baby really fast.

I am though very interested in a contrary view if one can be made for the overall health of the dragon.

Jeff

Thanks for elaborating, Jeff. I find all of this quite interesting and in the case of an ailing beardie, I do imagine that it's easier to assess particular health issues if the beardie weren't able to hide. Although I suppose that one could make a case for the fact that a hiding beardie is one who is not behaving "normally" and therefore, should be examined? :dontknow:

As to the eye issues, my biggest concern is that there are way too many UVB bulbs out there that cause issues (eye and otherwise) for beardies. An almost always closed left eye was one of the symptoms that was happening in our beardie when I found this site. We were using a compact UVB light, and along with eye issues, our beardie was not eating well, and sleeping way too much. Incidentally, this was when she was still in her starter tank that did not have a hide in it, and yes, we pretty much knew something was going on for her right away. At the time however, we weren't sure if it was a "bad" something, or a "normal" something. Luckily bd.org was able to clear that up for us. She is now thriving under her MVB, and the eye issue cleared up as soon as we switched her UVB light for a quality unit. For now, she has one of those carved out log/tunnel hides (also her basking log), which she spends most of the time on top of, thankfully. The hide isn't very "hidden" as it faces the front of the enclosure, and I think I'm liking to just keep it that way. You're ideas make a lot of sense to me.

As to the eye issues themselves, I'm not so sure I can agree that poor lights only rarely cause eye issues. Aside from my own experience, I have taken part in numerous threads where eye issues have been a problem, and can be rather apparently attributed to poor UVB; coils mostly, and then compacts and ReptiGlo 10.0 tubes tend to be the worst offenders. And I've only been here a few months? :dontknow: So for those whose eyes are effected (among other things, usually), most (like our dragon), were helped simply by switching the light for a better one. But again, for those dragons who choose to hide, I suppose it could very well mask any symptom that would tip off an owner... yes, that does make a lot of sense.

Can't say that I have a contrary view myself. :mrgreen: Our dragon, if she feels the need to hide (say, if our cat steps up to the viv and attempts to terrorize her, bad kitty! :x ), tends to just dive down and camouflage herself in her leaves which I think is probably an important thing for her to be able to do, and she somehow manages to bask while doing this/very clever little thing! But needing a full on hide/can't see dragon at all... I do question whether this is necessary and I feel there is a reason I've resisted it. Frankly, I get rather annoyed when she get stuck in that thing, especially if it's after meal time when she needs to be basking... I'm home during the day and can check on her tons, but if I weren't... you get the picture, I'm sure. What about for older dragons though, for brumating dragons specifically? Is an enclosed hide necessary there?

Thanks again, Jeff. I appreciate it! And sorry to the OP if I've taken your topic to a place that is a little "off."

The best,
Em

 

[Embee]

Chris,

How is your dragon doing? Has he been getting out more?

The best,
Em

 

[chris23039]

hi em, he has been out on his basking spot when i get home from school the last few days but thats because ive been taking his hide out. should i put it back in if it is bad for him?

 

[Embee]

hi em, he has been out on his basking spot when i get home from school the last few days but thats because ive been taking his hide out. should i put it back in if it is bad for him?

Well, I would still be concerned as to WHY he was hiding in the first place. As Dawn and myself mentioned, the ReptiGlo 10.0 tubes have been known to cause problems for beardies: lack of appetite, lethargy, and eye issues to name a few, and I do wonder if the hiding was an attempt to shield his eyes? It's hard to say. Eying your enclosure, it looks as if he's some distance away from the UVB which with the ReptiGlo is probably a good thing. You say he is basking happily now? Eating well still?

Indeed, when you do go to replace the tube with a longer size, see if you can get an Arcadia, as they are a known safe bulb, and also offer high quality UVB, while the ReptiGlo 10.0 tube has been somewhat unpredictable (see my link in above post).

The best,
Em

 

[chris23039]

hi yes hes still eating well and doesnt seem to be hiding as much. i have found a website that sells the repti-sun 10.0 so ill probably get that
Thanks

 

[Embee]

hi yes hes still eating well and doesnt seem to be hiding as much. i have found a website that sells the repti-sun 10.0 so ill probably get that
Thanks

Fantastic. I've learned from experience that there is no substitute for quality UVB.

The best,
Em