Why do I look on Craigslist:(

[AHBD]

We need regulations in many parts of our lives that benefit us. Speed limits+ other traffic laws, laws on drinking ,texting while driving, etc. Restaurants have regulations for safe food handling, imported food + products etc. Just because these laws don't stop ALL lawbreaking or prevent abuses, would that mean there should be no laws ?

I too have had a variety of creatures that I've enjoyed since a very young age. It's a huge leap to go from " no regulations at all" to " some common sense oversight " that would include people being educated but also the areas that I mentioned [ reptile shows, importers, shops ] having some stricter standards to insure that there is not needless suffering or exploiting of these animals.

 

[Skipper7]

To be honest most of my reptiles are a lot easier to care for than my cats. Feed em once a week, clean enclosure once a week, let them sleep for 5 months.
The cats, fed them daily, clean litter daily, dump litter every couple days, throw toys to them, brush them....etc.
An animal is an animal, regulating reptiles based on how some people care for them makes as much sense to me as trying to regulate a cat, dog, or fish.
Most animal owners are not abusive so its reactionary to see an abused reptile and blame all reptile owners for that abuse. Regulation doesn't stop everyone from abusing animals...so should we ban all ownership? Someone once said "owning a reptile isn't a right, its a privilege".... I totally disagree with that statement. It is my right to own a reptile, there is no law preventing it. Its a right and a privilege....
Should we blame all bearded dragon breeders for the abuse that some of the reptiles they produce suffer? Should we regulate breeding?
Would most everyone on this forum have a bearded dragon if they were regulated? Are most people on this forum an animal abuser?
Who dictates who's qualified to own a reptile? How do you test them? How do you enforce it? Do regulators come to your home for monthly inspections? Do you have to prove you replaced your lights every 6 months?
I mean seriously...where would the people advocating regulation draw the line? Sorry, but I draw the line at any regulation.

I agree. Like John Locke argued, you have the freedom to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights or others. To me, this doesn't just apply to infringing on other people. It applies to animals as well. You have the rights to keep Bearded Dragons until you abuse one, or any animal for that matter. At that point, your rights should be forfeited. No more animals. Anyone who knowingly abuses an animal is scum. If you conscientiously hurt an animal you should never be allowed to own another.

 

[Rankins]

Yes, there are laws and regulations that we must follow. We follow speed limits so we don't kill people with our cars, we regulate food by the FDA because we don't want people poisoned, we have drinking limits because we don't want children getting drunk....none of that has anything to do with animals and ownership. Just because I disagree with the government regulating what animals I own doesn't mean I endorse murder and mayhem...
Be assured there are more bearded dragons that will continue to get awesome care because of this forum. Education is more helpful than restriction...encourage ownership. Foster an interest in reptiles, give lectures at schools, post more often on this list, if you see someone struggling with what items to buy at the pet store...assist them in making wise purchases, get involved in animal welfare groups.....etc
Restriction and regulation stifles interest, I don't see how that benefits anyone other than the people that would rather take the choices out our hands. Why give up your freedom because of someone else's errors? Of course regulation and restriction is much easier than all the positive things I have mentioned. I just don't feel the easy way out is the best way.

 

[AHBD]

And animals need someone to keep them from being abused at times. Don't worry Rankin's, I'm not trying to advocate taking away of anyone's freedoms.

 

[Rankins]

Yes, they do.
That's why there are animal abuse laws.

 

[SHBailey]

I agree with alot of this, but I prefer the term "legal guardian" instead of "owner". Besides, we don't "own" our beardie -- he owns us

 

[Rankins]

Haha....yeah, I say "animals" a lot also. Its been mentioned (not on this forum) that its impersonal and sounds insensitive. I don't mean it that way, I just have several species and have gotten use to not excluding any of them

 

[Gormagon]

I agree with alot of this, but I prefer the term "legal guardian" instead of "owner". Besides, we don't "own" our beardie -- he owns us

Couldn't have said it better myself!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[SHBailey]

Some of the Alaska natives think of "animals" as "non human persons", and it's their tradition to treat them with respect. Maybe they have some wisdom that the rest of us have lost somewhere along the way.

 

[Taffer]

Some of the Alaska natives think of "animals" as "non human persons", and it's their tradition to treat them with respect. Maybe they have some wisdom that the rest of us have lost somewhere along the way.

Well said! My father taught me to hunt and fish from a young age. As a part of this I was taught to love, to never disrespect any life and treat it well while it was in our care, or in the wild. We had a small farm and we did raise some animals for food, but later my parents just had animals for the sake of enjoyment - a peacock (wow he was beautiful), turkey (so fat he waddled), goats, chickens (for eggs), geese, guinea hens and so forth. I wish more people had parents like mine.

I have nothing against the term, "Animal". As far as I'm concerned, humans are animals too if you look at the raw definition...wild or pet or human, we're all animals. Some of us are just blessed enough to be care takers to other animals and love, protect and provide for them, whether they are pets, companions or our masters.

 

[Rankins]

I'm glad the term "animals" doesn't connote anything bad here
I can't help saying it because I have been saying it for about 30 years. The person the had a problem with the term probably didn't realize I have 23 reptiles and soon to be 34. I wish my beaded lizards would hurry up and hatch. One egg is dented in, so shouldn't be much longer for that one.

 

[PogonaTrainerAISP]

I got really mad at a local PetSmart yesterday. They had bearded dragons without UV and heat, in which I informed the manager that was animal cruelty, and then stormed out. Saying I was mad was an understatement.

It's horrible! There is no care at all for these animals in pet stores. When you try imagining how many animals belong to them, it's a disgrace to society.

 

[Taffer]

I got really mad at a local PetSmart yesterday. They had bearded dragons without UV and heat, in which I informed the manager that was animal cruelty, and then stormed out. Saying I was mad was an understatement.

It's horrible! There is no care at all for these animals in pet stores. When you try imagining how many animals belong to them, it's a disgrace to society.

Yeah, and there are tons of people that work there that know these things are going on and try to correct it, but they are simply not allowed. I was watching a video of a girl that used to work at a Pet Schmo (assuming PetCo LOL) and because she was a girl and smaller and weaker than most of the other employees, they had her working on the register. She has several pets from reptiles, dragons and dogs/cats and such, and would often hear people on the floor giving very bad or inaccurate advice, and she would give better directions to the people when they came to the register. She got fussed at and they told her not to do that...her job was to ring people up, not give them instructions. I guess they wanted her to just take their money and get them out of the store ASAP. Sucks when people have the right knowledge and Pet Schmo won't even allow their employees to properly instruct people in caring for their new animals. Luckily I found this site before we bought our dragon and I was fairly quick about getting the missing items that the "educated' employee left off the required list. Things such as a UVB bulb, stronger basking bulb, feeding (i.d.i.o.t. (profanity filter doesn't like that word) told my wife to only feed our dragon 3 crickets a day), infrared temp gun and so on. It's a bit disgusting when you think about it.

Pet Co or Pet Smart has a fairly new dog food out that they are pushing. They gave us a coupon for a free 5 pound bag. They were saying it was better than most of the premium dog foods, and cheaper. Free is free, and we tried it and our 70 pound German Shepherd rescue mutt named Shasta turned her nose up at it for 2 days before eating some of it, and turned her nose up the following day again. I'm sorry, but our dog has never turned her nose up at anything for more than 6-8 hours, so she must have really hated it. I compared the dog food with BilJac, what we feed her now and not only is it a lesser quality dog food in my opinion, but pound for pound it is more expensive too. I don't recall what we were feeding Shasta before BilJac, but in less than two weeks on BilJac, she had transformed from a lethargic dog we had thought was starting to slow down due to age to a dog running around, playing and acting like she did 2-3 years earlier, and she still acts like this to this day.

 

[Rankins]

Its really too bad this stuff happens, but in the age of cell phones and the internet it allows us to be proactive. We can video and post them online...when it hurts the companies pocket book chances are good their practices will change. I feel the worse way to deal with it is through regulation...but I do understand why others feel differently. Many young current bearded dragons owners will grow up to be vets, herpetologists, herpeticulturists, pet shop owners, etc based on the interest they have in reptiles.

 

[Taffer]

Its really too bad this stuff happens, but in the age of cell phones and the internet it allows us to be proactive. We can video and post them online...when it hurts the companies pocket book chances are good their practices will change.

With the amount of flack these chain pet stores have caught for bad practices so far, the employees are probably instructed to watch for this in their orientation training and to clam up and ask customers to leave the store and tell them they are trespassing. :laughhard: :laughhard: :laughhard: :laughhard: