Thinking of breeding??

[theguy67]

i didnt really get that from this thread, just it kinda supported the feeling that was fed to me over the years from other sites.

I'd have to disagree partially with the profit statment. Beginners can not make a profit, but experts that raise their own food, cut down on most expenses can. Just saying if your dream is to raise and breed reptiles it is possible for a career, but it takes alot of devoted time and money to start out. People who do not like reptiles would not last a year.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

This thread was started with a beginner in mind.
If someone wants to breed its gonna happen one way or another.
I want people who think they are gonna make fast money throwing thier dragons together to think of whats involved and what to expect with 100 hungry mouths to feed. As a breeder I am confronted with back yard breeders at every show I do. For the most part I dont even try to compete with the deals or prices they offer. I know 5 years down the road I will still be here(I hope) doing what Im doing. It isnt easy doing it right and turning a profit. I tend to avoid the wholesale market. On occasion I have bought clutches wholesale, but its rare. I have sold partial clutches wholesale as well. Its part of the business end of the hobby.

 

[greathouseFarm]

I definitely agree that I don't think anyone feels ashamed. And you having experience already know that the biggest hurdle
Is cutting feeding cost. I don't know what size clutches Leos have but I assume it's pretty much the same. As Tom said selling wholesale lots is part of the business. I think that as a responsible breeder it is important to know your wholesaler and the end result for those babies. So they don't end up being boxed and shipped many times and end up on a show table in a sad little deli cup! I personally sell my small lots to local mom and pop pet shops that I approve of. I turned down a possible sale last week because the guy would not answer my question if what he intended to do with them. I hope that people who attend shows see breeders like Tom and know they are getting a healthy happy baby!

 

[Twobeardieguy]

+3

 

[Drache613]

Unlocked per member request.

 

[broozersfam]

I was approaced by someone who thought my Bruce would be an excellant mate for their Spike. I never realized what all went into breeding thank you for saving me from over breeding not only for myself but the owners of Spike as well.

 

[theresal]

I also think this is a great post. I have 5 dragons and I spend lots of time with them. I clean poop from one of them every time I go into the reptile room, which is all the time. I am planning on breeding, but I want to make sure that I have everything I need before I do it including lots of space if they don't sell quickly enough to keep them together. I don't want a bunch of nipped dragons. I have been preparing for breeding dragons since October and I still have lots of things that I need to get ready before I do. A person would not believe all the supplies you have to have on hand to get started breeding, not to mention that it is a small fortune. I have recently joined this site and want to thank everyone for all of the helpful information on here. It has made preparing for breeding much easier.
Theresa

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

:mrgreen:

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Lately I have been running into ALOT of people breeding their dragons. Some people have prepared, most have not. I sit back and I have to wonder WHY???
I know why I do it and I have invested years and thousands of dollars. It just boggles My mind when I see people put 2 animals together just to see what happens. Im just sitting here shaking my head and wondering.

 

[DeweysMom]

Tom, I've wondered the same thing for years! My questions began with puppy mills and backyard breeders. Although, in those cases it's for nothing else but money. The animal's health and well being are very rarely, if ever, taken into consideration. It's very sad to see how some people think it's ok to treat animals.

Anyway, to your specific question. I would LOVE to breed beardies if for nothing else just to experience the whole process. I love the idea of having all those cute little babies around. I mean seriously, how can you beat that? But, I'm smart enough to know that that's not a good enough reason to breed them and that there's a lot of behind the scenes work involved as well. I'm also smart enough to know that... well, I'm NOT smart enough to breed them! I don't know all there is to know about breeding them caring for the mom before and after laying the eggs. I for one am not willing to risk the lives of any animals without at least having the basic knowledge of how to handle certain situations. For now, I'm just reading and learning. Someday, if I ever do decide to get into the breeding business, it will only be after I have all the proper supplies, money, time, room, and possibly even a mentor to back me up throughout the process.

I honestly don't know how or why people can treat something like breeding as a matter of fact and just jump in completely blind about the whole process. It blows my mind too. :dontknow:

 

[greathouseFarm]

I'm sure that a lot has been covered in this long thread that has come back to life. I have just completed my first year breeding bearded dragons. I was already an avid animal lover and have been breeding show rabbits for years (something I grew up doing) So when my son asked if we could also start breeding bearded dragons I said well let's research it. Just for the record my son is not the kind of kid to have a whim and than phase it out. He has always been passionate about animals and especially reptiles and also wants to be a herpetologist when he grows up. So this was first and foremost an educational project for him. But it also serves as his main chores and he learns so much about the inside of business. So we researched for 2 yrs before pairing up our first mates. I developed contacts like Tracie (god love her) and Cheryl (now my best dragon friend!) and as DeweysMom said I have years of genetic and animal biology & husbandry experience. So how was our first year you ask? Well heres the simple numbers we made ~ $5000 and spent about $8000 on food, supplements and medicines. So you can guess where the other 3k came from. And that does not include what I spent on dragons themselves, enclosures or lights. But the reward of knowing that were passing on a nice healthy 6 week old fat baby to a new owner who has been given the time to ask every question they can think of. Priceless.

So why do others do it? I think that aside from that non-educated ones that think they're going to make a quick buck. There are those out there with good intentions who simply do not realize the shear numbers involved. 1 dragon 60-100 eggs and each baby eats how many crickets per day! So with a good heart they can't bare to cull the eggs (which by the way is totally humane IMO) and so they run out to buy a hovabator and THEN they start doing research. A couple of months later when they are being overwhelmed with trying to provide food they give in and sell the babies (now probably only 2 weeks old if that) to the nearest wholesaler they can find. And there you have the tiny, tail, toe nipped skinny babies you see in Petco. We say it all the time on here... buy and encourage your friends to buy from a reputable breeder!

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Now time, patience, and investment are concepts I can get My head around. You took the time you did the due dilegence, not only do I applaud the effort, I can respect the effort. Almost everyday I get a call or an email about someones 8 month old dragon being gravid. Its almost always "so now what do I do?" or "how much money can I make?" Its just frustrating.

 

[spurlee01]

Now time, patience, and investment are concepts I can get My head around. You took the time you did the due dilegence, not only do I applaud the effort, I can respect the effort. Almost everyday I get a call or an email about someones 8 month old dragon being gravid. Its almost always "so now what do I do?" or "how much money can I make?" Its just frustrating.

We aren't referring to the people who have "accidents" like a toddler letting two beardies out at once are we? Not something to strive for, but I felt this was more a breeding for profit issue than a true and genuine accident. Just my two cents (not looking to argue, just for clarification).

 

[greathouseFarm]

No I don't think anyone is faulting someone for having an accident. But if your okay with eating chicken eggs you should be okay with freezing the eggs. I think most of us feel that it is much more humane to do that, than attempt to hatch the eggs without proper preparation and know how. It usually leads to overcrowded and underfed babies. Unfortunately that does not help the poor mother who has to lay the eggs and is depleted of nutrients. So one should pay special mind to her needs.

But there are those who have a moral issue with culling the eggs. And those who just think it would be so cute to have baby beardies. My guess is that they truly have no clue that one mating encounter can lead to 3-5 clutches of 15-25 or more eggs each! Nor are they prepared for the cost of live food and the hours a day of work keeping things clean and sanitary. So like I said earlier most try to quickly sell off the young hatchlings before they are ready. And unfortunately most wholesalers will accept them that young.

I think the purpose of this thread is to just shine some light on these issues. For the future sake of the beardies we all love so much.

 

[dnrtn2342]

I am currently trying to learn everything I can about breeding I have read just about every thread in breeding section at least once. And no I am definitely not breeding tomorrow, next week or next month. I am shooting for Aug 2012. I get back from deployment in May and it will be smooth sailing for another year and a half. I have a colony of dubias started now to hopefully at least offset cricket shipments in and out but have that taken care of too just in case. (Old neighbor owns a gas station back in the boonies of south ga, can get them at cost). I will have a whole separate room for beardies, with a rack I will build myself. US Navy woodshop!! haha. As of between now and then, research, studying,notes, stocking supplies(vitamins,paper towels, calcium, food dishes, and anything else me and my wife can think of). Any input you can think of tips, tricks,side-notes, you name it. I'm all ears when it comes to learning. But at least I know I have some amazing breeders on here. (TnD, Greathouse, Bloodbank,Rio, Citrus, and the other breeders without names haha.) I love this site and glad to see people who are as passionate about animals more specifically reptiles as I am.

I remember catching my first snake at 7, and my first live venomous snake at 11.

Sorry for the long post.
Danny