Set Up Question

[HuberNS92]

I wanted to find a cheap or household item flooring for my bearded dragon and his 40 gallon tank. For my smaller terrarium I had reptile mat but i'm not looking to spend extra money. Any suggestions?

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

You can use textured tile(such as slate), papertwoweling, non-adhesive shelf paper or non-adhesive linoleum.

 

[HuberNS92]

Awesome thanks. What does everyone think about the calc- or vita-sand that is sold in stores. I know its rumored to caused impaction but i'm going to get it for him when he is an adult I think? It seems harmless enough. Any thoughts?

 

[Fuzzyviper]

Calci-sand clumps when wet and will more than likely give him an impaction, even as an adult. It is even worse for them than regular sand since it clumps into a harder mass and it's recommended to not go with loose substrates in general. They will eat it if you feed in the cage, they will kick up the dust when they move around and breathe it in, and they can get it in their eyes and get an eye infection or worse. The sand also holds onto the bacteria from their poop and is impossible to sterilize so it will likely smell and he will basically be walking in a litter box. Shelf liner or paper towels work well but will need replaced, especially the paper towels. In the end, they will probably cost about the same as putting in tiles so I'd recommend doing that. Tile is easy to clean (pop it out, clean it), will wear down his claws so you don't have to trim them, and just generally looks very nice in the tank.

He may do fine on a loose substrate but the risk is not worth it. There is always that chance something bad will happen because of using it and if that danger can be avoided, it's recommended to do so. I lost a frog a few years back from eating substrate without my knowledge (He ate a wood chip and it was too large to pass.) and I can tell you that a large impaction is a sad and painful way for herps to go.

 

[BadCon]

Those artificial sands usually have coloring that leaches off onto the dragon. Anytime you see a beardie with colored feet, you know they use or once used calci/vita sand.

 

[HuberNS92]

I've got another question about set up.

I have a 40 gallon tank. I want to know about the lighting though. From what i've read a 100 watt bulb should give out enough heat for a basking area. I'm confused because I have the 100 watt bulb maybe 7 inches away from my dragon's "basking spot" and it is only at 93 degrees or so. First of all, I know it is not ideal, but is this high enough for a basking temp? And also, I have the bulb in a 70 watt or so lamp, could that be the problem?

 

[Jess]

What kind of thermometer do you have? Because a 100 watt should be plenty hot enough. I used a 65 watt flood light in my 40B that was farther away that your 100 watt, and the temps were in the upper 90s/low 100s.

And it's not a good idea to use a 100 watt bulb in a fixture rated for 70 watts... It could be a fire hazard.

 

[HuberNS92]

What kind of thermometer do you have? Because a 100 watt should be plenty hot enough. I used a 65 watt flood light in my 40B that was farther away that your 100 watt, and the temps were in the upper 90s/low 100s.

And it's not a good idea to use a 100 watt bulb in a fixture rated for 70 watts... It could be a fire hazard.

Don't know much about lights. Eh wish there was a brand name or something on it. I got a 6$ thermometer, not digital. Yeah, I was confused by that. Do you think the fact that the light fixture is a lower wattage is limiting the amount of heat the bulb emitts???

Also, what kind of dragon do you have? It looks awesome!

 

[Jess]

Is it a dial or a stick on one? Because those aren't accurate... They can be up to 20*F off in either direction! So your basking spot could very well be 113*F instead of the 93*F the thermomter is reading. Get either a digital thermometer with a probe, or an infared temp gun. If you need more help with lighting, click the link in my signature that says "Lighting Help for Newbies". :wink:
And I don't think the fixture would limit the amout of heat. But if you are using a bulb that is more than 70 watts, it would be safer to get a fixture that is rated for the right amount of watts.

Thanks! Dudley is adopted, so I have no idea LOL.

 

[HuberNS92]

Is it a dial or a stick on one? Because those aren't accurate... They can be up to 20*F off in either direction! So your basking spot could very well be 113*F instead of the 93*F the thermomter is reading. Get either a digital thermometer with a probe, or an infared temp gun. If you need more help with lighting, click the link in my signature that says "Lighting Help for Newbies". :wink:
And I don't think the fixture would limit the amout of heat. But if you are using a bulb that is more than 70 watts, it would be safer to get a fixture that is rated for the right amount of watts.

Thanks! Dudley is adopted, so I have no idea LOL.

Great! It has a dial. So I guess the lighting is good. I saw a chart on the back of my 75 watt bulb box, and it seems where I have it 100 watts would easily make a basking temperature, so that was confusing. Are you calling me a noob!? haha Thanks for the tip about the fire hazard, but its better there so I assume its okay. I guess i'll get a better temp gauge, anything cheap that you might recommend?

Also, I saw you had an entire post about sand. So I decided against calci-sand What do you think about play sand? I'm thinking about getting it. I know different reptile owners that have it.

 

[Jess]

Well, calling my thread "Lighting Help for Newbies" was easier than calling it "Lighting Help for People Who Might or Might Not be New to Beardies, but Just Need Help With Their Set Ups". :wink:
I use a digital indoor/outdoor thermometer from Walmart, that I got for $12. The brand is Acu-Rite. It will tell you the cool side, the basking spot, and the humidity. So for what it all does, it's a pretty good price.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't like play sand either, and not entirely because of the impaction issues of it. Play sand is made of silica, and it is not meant to be lived in. Here is the health warning from a bag of Quickrete play sand:
http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/MSDS-B4-Playsand.pdf

POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS:
Inhalation:
a. Silicosis Respirable crystalline silica (quartz) can cause silicosis, a fibrosis (scarring) of the
lungs. Silicosis may be progressive; it may lead to disability and death.
b. Lung Cancer Crystalline silica (quartz) inhaled from occupational sources is classified as
carcinogenic to humans.
c. Tuberculosis Silicosis increases the risk of tuberculosis.
d. Autoimmune and Chronic Kidney Diseases Some studies show excess numbers of cases of
scleroderma, connective tissue disorders, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, chronic kidney diseases
and end-stage kidney disease in workers exposed to respirable crystalline silica.
e. Non-Malignant Respiratory Diseases (other than silicosis) Some studies show an increased
incidence in chronic bronchitis and emphysema in workers exposed to respirable crystalline
silica.

As you can see, it is dangerous to breathe silica. Keep in mind that your beardie's head will only be an inch or two about the sand when he is walking on it, and the sand will also be stirred up when he walks on it, making it more dusty.

Eye Contact: Crystalline silica (quartz) may cause abrasion of the cornea.
Skin Contact: Not applicable.
Ingestion: Not applicable.

Since the average kid doesn't devour sand, they haven't really tested what effects the ingestion of silica play sand can have.

Inhalation: No specific first-aid is necessary since the adverse health effects associated with
exposure to crystalline silica (quartz) result from chronic exposures. If there is a gross inhalation of
crystalline silica (quartz), remove the person immediately to fresh air, give artificial respiration as
needed, seek medical attention as needed.

Living in sand 24/7 for weeks, months, or years can be considered chronic exposure, IMO.

Note: Keeping Play Sand damp eliminates the hazards associated with its dust.

A beardie's sand shouldn't be kept damp, so there isn't a way to eliminate the dust hazards for them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry for the novel, but I just wanted to show you why impaction is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to sand. I also observe at a vet clinic that specializes in exotics, and I've seen a huge adult beardie who was so impacted from sand that he needed surgery to survive it.

I have non-adhesive linoleum for my substrate, and I also have a digging box filled with alfalfa pellets for Dudley to dig in. He LOVES it, and it is a great alternative to having loose substrate in the whole cage. Alfalfa pellets are completely digestible if a beardie were to eat some, but most of them hate the taste of it. So if you want your beardie to be able to dig, a box of alfalfa pellets is a great option and it is MUCH safer than sand.

 

[HuberNS92]

Well, calling my thread "Lighting Help for Newbies" was easier than calling it "Lighting Help for People Who Might or Might Not be New to Beardies, but Just Need Help With Their Set Ups". :wink:
I use a digital indoor/outdoor thermometer from Walmart, that I got for $12. The brand is Acu-Rite. It will tell you the cool side, the basking spot, and the humidity. So for what it all does, it's a pretty good price.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't like play sand either, and not entirely because of the impaction issues of it. Play sand is made of silica, and it is not meant to be lived in. Here is the health warning from a bag of Quickrete play sand:
http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/MSDS-B4-Playsand.pdf

POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS:
Inhalation:
a. Silicosis Respirable crystalline silica (quartz) can cause silicosis, a fibrosis (scarring) of the
lungs. Silicosis may be progressive; it may lead to disability and death.
b. Lung Cancer Crystalline silica (quartz) inhaled from occupational sources is classified as
carcinogenic to humans.
c. Tuberculosis Silicosis increases the risk of tuberculosis.
d. Autoimmune and Chronic Kidney Diseases Some studies show excess numbers of cases of
scleroderma, connective tissue disorders, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, chronic kidney diseases
and end-stage kidney disease in workers exposed to respirable crystalline silica.
e. Non-Malignant Respiratory Diseases (other than silicosis) Some studies show an increased
incidence in chronic bronchitis and emphysema in workers exposed to respirable crystalline
silica.

As you can see, it is dangerous to breathe silica. Keep in mind that your beardie's head will only be an inch or two about the sand when he is walking on it, and the sand will also be stirred up when he walks on it, making it more dusty.

Eye Contact: Crystalline silica (quartz) may cause abrasion of the cornea.
Skin Contact: Not applicable.
Ingestion: Not applicable.

Since the average kid doesn't devour sand, they haven't really tested what effects the ingestion of silica play sand can have.

Inhalation: No specific first-aid is necessary since the adverse health effects associated with
exposure to crystalline silica (quartz) result from chronic exposures. If there is a gross inhalation of
crystalline silica (quartz), remove the person immediately to fresh air, give artificial respiration as
needed, seek medical attention as needed.

Living in sand 24/7 for weeks, months, or years can be considered chronic exposure, IMO.

Note: Keeping Play Sand damp eliminates the hazards associated with its dust.

A beardie's sand shouldn't be kept damp, so there isn't a way to eliminate the dust hazards for them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry for the novel, but I just wanted to show you why impaction is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to sand. I also observe at a vet clinic that specializes in exotics, and I've seen a huge adult beardie who was so impacted from sand that he needed surgery to survive it.

I have non-adhesive linoleum for my substrate, and I also have a digging box filled with alfalfa pellets for Dudley to dig in. He LOVES it, and it is a great alternative to having loose substrate in the whole cage. Alfalfa pellets are completely digestible if a beardie were to eat some, but most of them hate the taste of it. So if you want your beardie to be able to dig, a box of alfalfa pellets is a great option and it is MUCH safer than sand.

Hahaha I was just messing no worries. See that seems weird to me. I know I have heard terrible things about calci-sand so I won't get that. But you're saying play-sand is bad for ingestion. As funny as it sounds a lot of kids ate sand when they were little without problem. My older brother did in fact haha. Do you think that there are safe kinds out there? It just looks more natural, you know? Right now I have tile in my tank. What do you think of that? I like that I won't have to clip his nails that is a plus.

Hmm, you got a thermometer can tell the temp in three different areas for that much!?! :shock: How did you find that!? Wow. And its pretty accurate to??

Btw, do you use crickets to feed your guy?

 

[Jess]

Well, my point was that there are more problems with sand than just impaction: Eye infections, lung irritations, URIs, ect. Even if a beardie who is housed on sand never eats a single grain of it, he can still die from the other health hazards associated with using sand.
If your brother shoveled bucket-fulls of sand into his mouth, I might be a tad concerned LOL.
As far as safe sands, I just don't think you can get around issues that can come with housing a beardie on sand. I use sand in my aquarium and in my hermit crab cage, and I think there might be different types of sand that aren't quite as terrible as silica or calcium sand, but the problems are still there.
And tile is a great substrate. In the wild, many beardies live in areas that have hard packed dirt as a substrate, so tile is actually a pretty natural substrate for them too. If you get it in a terra-cotta/redish color, it looks a lot like the color of their substrate in Australia. :wink:

Yup, it's a great thermometer! You can get it on Amazon too, but it's a little more expensive there:
http://www.amazon.com/Chaney-Instruments-Acu-Rite-Thermometer-Humidity/dp/B001BO8CUE/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1311802259&sr=8-12

And a mix of crickets and superworms. I can't stand crickets though, so hopefully I'll be switching to dubia roaches soon.

 

[HuberNS92]

Well, my point was that there are more problems with sand than just impaction: Eye infections, lung irritations, URIs, ect. Even if a beardie who is housed on sand never eats a single grain of it, he can still die from the other health hazards associated with using sand.
If your brother shoveled bucket-fulls of sand into his mouth, I might be a tad concerned LOL.
As far as safe sands, I just don't think you can get around issues that can come with housing a beardie on sand. I use sand in my aquarium and in my hermit crab cage, and I think there might be different types of sand that aren't quite as terrible as silica or calcium sand, but the problems are still there.
And tile is a great substrate. In the wild, many beardies live in areas that have hard packed dirt as a substrate, so tile is actually a pretty natural substrate for them too. If you get it in a terra-cotta/redish color, it looks a lot like the color of their substrate in Australia. :wink:

Yup, it's a great thermometer! You can get it on Amazon too, but it's a little more expensive there:
http://www.amazon.com/Chaney-Instruments-Acu-Rite-Thermometer-Humidity/dp/B001BO8CUE/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1311802259&sr=8-12

And a mix of crickets and superworms. I can't stand crickets though, so hopefully I'll be switching to dubia roaches soon.

Hmm okay I think i'll just stick with tile. If there are that many other problems that an come. Okay i'll check out the thermometer.

So this thermometer reads three different places?

Do it switch! I just got roaches a couple weeks ago, still havent bred unfortunately. But can't wait till I can feed them constantly. Crickets suck, smell, and are loud. So far there a lot better. Plus, you're about my age i'm 19, and moneys going to be an issue for you if you're going to college haha

 

[Jess]

It reads the temperature in 2 different places (The basking spot and the cool side) and it also reads the humidity.

Yeah, it's just a matter of convincing my mom LOL. :roll: I'm kind of terrified of crickets, so they aren't working out too well for me.