Kazi - RIP my special Wee monkey.

[MissT]

I'm glad to hear that he is enjoying the mint,excercising,and feeling better overall
So are the vitamins to help the anemia?

Thanks Michelle - he definitely has been feeling much much better today - I still cant believe he ate 4 locusts - he did then refuse to take his critical care but at least he ate something today! We currently use Nutrabol for vitamins but it does contain calcium - its the only readily available vitamin suplement we have been able to find over here..... the vet says the nutrabol is ok but does not really have an adequate vitamin content - I mentioned the lack of vitamin supplements available and he said he had much better and more specific vitamin supplements there. I've been trying to get info on anemia/red blood cells in reptiles and I seem to be finding a lot on vitamin b - particularly vitamins b2 and b12 so, if I dont see much presence of these in the vets vitamin then I shall be trying to get some vitamin b complex shipped from beautiful dragons. The vet says, a couple weeks should see a difference so he will be having follow up tests around 11th January.

So, with the anemia, Kazi is to have rest.... however, with the gassy bubble, he is supposed to have movement!!! EEEEK!!!! The vet said not to let him out for any free roaming and to keep him in a confined space such as his viv He said to keep up the massages and make sure we rub from armpit to vent as this should loosen up that gas! Its a little sad because Kazi loves getting out for some explorations!

However; I honestly don't feel that anemia has anything to do with that lung. Never in all of my years have I seen anything like anemia causing pressure on a lung since anemia is just a lack of iron. He is just clogged up. Lube up the little fellah and let him get it out. It may take a few days, but I'm sure that it will work.

No, I dont think the two are related. The lung issue is a gas issue, but its occurence has made us aware of the anemia - without the discomfort caused by the gas, we would never have realised something was wrong. The anemia/iron/vitamin deficiency could also be the reason for his pooping problems.

 

[MissT]

MissT,I see you are online.What are you doing awake at this hour?? :shock: I hope everything is ok!

Hehe, everything is fine, Michelle - Kazi is sleeping like a baby for once Its Friday night, I have no work tomoro and its the only time when the boards are really 'alive' so to speak! lol

 

[ChellyBeans]

I really wish that it was warmer outside.

Some nice sun rays would be perfect for this. A nice, long, warm bask.

Until then, bath and cuddles. I am really upset that this vet suggested rest. I guess if I were to have seen your little fellah, I would have a more accurate answer.

 

[puppytoes72]

MissT,I see you are online.What are you doing awake at this hour?? :shock: I hope everything is ok!

Hehe, everything is fine, Michelle - Kazi is sleeping like a baby for once Its Friday night, I have no work tomoro and its the only time when the boards are really 'alive' so to speak! lol

Oh good,I'm glad everything is ok. I know you are about 6 hours ahead of the USA so I did get a little worried.

I just googled "anemia=rest?" and it does seem like rest IS the right course of action right now. I'm sorry.Maybe you can cheat a little and let him go on just a little walk each day :wink:

 

[ChellyBeans]

Anemia does require rest HOWEVER, with all of that gas and vitamins in his system, I would prefer there to be at LEAST a little exercise. There is so much going on in his little body and with that weight on the lung, you need to get it moved. If it keeps inflating, you could find yourself with a collapsed lung.

Rest is always lovely, but there needs to be some movement. Massages won't be enough to push all of that gas out of there.

 

[MissT]

Oh good,I'm glad everything is ok. I know you are about 6 hours ahead of the USA so I did get a little worried.

I just googled "anemia=rest?" and it does seem like rest IS the right course of action right now. I'm sorry.Maybe you can cheat a little and let him go on just a little walk each day

Hehe, I was thinking of cheating a little - I might let him swim - I didnt let him swim in tonights bath even tho he wanted to but he had been very active today so I was trying to make him rest but il maybe let that be his little bit of fun each day! He will be getting even more cuddles tho ! Hes getting a good nights sleep tonight - he did 'the wriggle' again tonight so Im all pleased!

 

[puppytoes72]

Yay for wriggles!!

 

[vickson420]

Hi Miss T
Poor Kaziman So on top of the gas he is anemic? The most common cause of of anemia is going to be lack of B12 as Michelle said.Did they mention anything else?Did they sound concerned at all? Internal bleeding can sometimes cause it as well however he hadnt injured himself right? Either way I think there would have been obvious signs of trauma on the xray. Did they mention his organ function at all?

 

[DragonMomSandy]

Glad to hear that Kazi had a much better day and he ate locusts on his own! YAY Kazi! That's awesome. I am glad you've gotten some info on the results to put your mind at ease a little. I would agree with Michelle and Vicki, yes, the rest is needed, but I would let him swim a little in the bath along with the massage to help with the gas. If this is the only excerise he gets, then the rest should qualify as sufficient rest time. And, yeah, vit B12 deficiency can cause anemia, but like Vicky, I'm still a little concerned for your baby because I know that internal bleeding can also cause this. I hope if the vet felt concerned, he would have gotten back to you again. Also, did they check for kidney or liver related problems? And, did they find signs of tape worm or parasites from the fecal?

You sound very relieved, maybe tonight YOU as well as Kazi can get some sleep!

**HUGS**

 

[ChellyBeans]

If there were internal bleeding, for instance, inside the lung, it would be very black. If there were bleeding anywhere else, it would show up very dark or very light (depending on the area) and would stick out. I don't see any of that in this x-ray.

I do see the lung. Two reasons this could be happening:
1) The lung has taken in too much oxygen at once. This is often caused while drinking and choking slightly.
2) There is an air pocket caused by gas that got trapped under the lung.

Resting too much could cause the possible oxygen in the lung to increase because he isn't tiring to require deep breaths and strong exhales. Anemia shouldn't be disturbed too much once the vitamins get into his system.

The best way to work this issue is to provide your beardie with rest and vitamins for one day (24 hours). Try to keep them warm and provide a dark setting to get them to sleep as much as you can. Then the next day, Kazi should wake up ready to play and explore. Only allow this to happen in moderation. Preferably only for about 30 minutes then rest for a couple of hours and repeat cycle. The point of rest is to eliminate the chance of overdoing it. Which may cause their blood pressure to rise too much- hence my reasoning for exercise in moderation.

Allow a little play time in the tub with massages. Doing this increases the chance of expelling gas and potenially getting a desired poop. When your beardie drinks, don't let them drink from the tub, sprinkle drops of water on his nose and let him lick them off. This will force them to tilt their head upward and only ingesting a little bit of water at a time. It will prevent swallowing more air.

-PS. Before you start to think I'm nuts, I studied veterinary medicine for 4.5 years. I'd like to think I know a thing or two about a thing or two.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is Kazi doing today? That would be great if you could post a copy of the blood tests for me, I would like to see if anything else is amiss in his blood count. It sounds good that his calcium to phosphorus ratio is 2:1 which is where it needs to be. Do you give a straight calcium supplementation right now, or just the nutrabol?
What about Miner-All or Vita-All? I know you are in the UK, what about Calypso calcium, it is just plain with no D3 in it.
I feel that calcium supplementation should be given separately from the vitamin supplementation just to ensure that they get enough of both, but not too much on the vitamin end.
Sometimes, if they get too many vitamins, it will bind certain minerals from absorption & cause deficiencies. Do you feed anything that would hinder iron absorption like high oxalate foods or citrus? He could possibly have a thiamin deficiency.
The vitamin B complex would be a good thing to add, it should really help him out. Vitamin deficiencies will cause constipation so that is likely the main cause of the gas. Does he have worms or parasites right now?
The gas bubble should pass, eventually but I don't think it would cause the lung to deflate per say but will cause a lot of discomfort.

Keep us posted.

Tracie

 

[baby_geek]

I can see the resting recommended for anaemia as "anaemia" = "without blood," and is a lack of red blood cells and hemoglobin. This results in a reduced ability of blood to transfer O2 to the tissues as well as carry CO2 away. Hemoglobin is must to be present to ensure adequate oxygenation of all body tissues and organs. Hemoglobin is the iron-containing molecule in red blood cells that carries O2 around the body so, in anaemia, less oxygen is delivered to the tissues. Which would mean if Kazi is exercised too much he will actually be 'starved' for O2.

I am unclear on where the air bubble is situated. Is it in the thorax or abdomen and is it in the pleural space or is it a distention of the caudal lung lobe itself?

 

[MissT]

I wrote a really long reply this morning and then the site went down for maintenance but I will try to summarise as best as possible now....

Vicky and Sandy, the vet did mention that anemia is usually associated with internal bleeding or some other blood loss (injury) but, as there was no blood in his stool and no evidence on the x-ray he does not believe there is any internal bleeding. The fecal results are not back yet - he sent them away for more detailed analysis but they are not back yet

Chellybeans, I cannot really force him to rest for specific amounts of time and then allow him to exercise at other times - Kazi is a very independant little guy with a pretty big attitude - if he is resting I will leave him be.... if he wants out for some exercise I will give him a bath or let him have a run around for a little while.

Tracie, we have been using the calypso calcium (now called Komodo cricket dust) and have the minerall on hand as well but we were using the nutrabol alongside those as the vitmin supplement - the vet says the nutrabol does not contain enough vitamins to be considered sufficient and, in order for it to be sufficient it needs to be used 3 - 4 times per week so that could be a source of the problem. We only feed locusts and greens - dark leafy greens, endive, escarole and a little raddichio as I find it attracts them to the salad. Neither of them get much by way of fruit - perhaps a little apple or banana but not very often.

Baby geek, thanks for that explanation - it was very clear! The air bubble is not a distention of the lung itself - it is below the lung - the vet used a lot of words I didnt understand but from what I did understand, I believe the air bubble is situated in the abdomen.

T

 

[MissT]

Whoops.... forgot to add the results in that last post.... Just back from the vet. He gave me 'avimix' - specifically designed for birds as a lot of our supplements (such as the critical care) are. It says on the label
'contents per gram:
Vitamins A-1177 IU C 85mg E-54IU D3-118IU K B1 B2 B6 B12 folic, nicotinic and pantothenic acids, biotin choline niacin and minerals Ca 142mg P 5mg Na Fe K Co I Mn Zn Se Cu

And now for the blood results - hopefully I can post these in a way that is understandable!!! I have posted what the results should be in red.

BIOCHEMISTRY

Albumin 33 (g/L) (25 - 35)
Total Protein 52 (g/L) (52 - 72)
Uric Acid 99 (mmol/L) (0 - 350)
Bile Acid 23.3 (umol/L)
AST 5 (IU/L) (0 - 80)
Creatine Kinase 593 (IU/L) * this should be 0 - 550 so is a little high
Urea 0.4 (mmol/L) (0.0 - 1.4)
Sodium 144 (mmol/l) (140 - 160)
Potassium 4.6
Calcium 3.04 (mmol/L) (2.2 - 3.4)
Ionised Calcium 1.10 (mmol/l)
Phosphorous 1.45 (mmol/L) (1.1 - 2.3)


HAEMATOLOGY

White cell count 4.8 (10^9/l) (1.5 - 8.5)
Haemoglobin 4.6 (g/dl) * this is low should be 7.7 - 12.0
PCV 15 (%) * this is low should be 17 - 35

WBC Differential

Heterophils 72% 3.5 (10^9/l) (1.6 - 5.0)
Lymphocytes 25% 1.20 (10^9/l) (0.2 - 4.0)
Monocytes 1% 0.0 (10^9/l) (0.0 - 0.20)
Azurophils 2% 0.1 (10^9/l)

Film comment - Marked polychromasia and mild hypochromia and vacuolation within erythrocyte series. No toxic or macrophaging leucocytes seen. Thrombocytes appear immature and greatly reduced in number. Film picture is consistent with blood loss.

The vet also mentioned the immature thrombocytes would indicate that he is beginning to regenerate cells himself.

 

[puppytoes72]

Overall his bloodwork looks pretty good(except for a couple things)

How is Kazi today??
Before your last post I was going to suggest maybe stopping the critical care you've been giving him since he's eating on his own now. Critical Care is normally given to spark the appetite and nourish the animal until he starts eating on his own. But...this new stuff(Avimix) the vet gave you sounds like it has alot of stuff Kazi needs,and you were hoping that it had vitamin B, which it does That is awesome that Kazi is starting to regenerate cells