German Giant question
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kirby
Extreme Poster
Rosebud":2999f said:
unfortunately there is a bunch of people sellign wild caughts, they walk down the highway, collect 40 or so and make them selves rich by sending them in boxes, which arrive 3-4 weeks at their destination, often in asia. where the humidities too high.
they caught a bunch (35?) in sydney, half were dying.. (they were ont heir way OUT of the country, in cramped socks, and boxes.. they were severely dehydrated... poor things.
and to think, yall americans FUND this cruel and deadly practice.. shame...
sorry to drag the convo negetively... but thats why the prices and availability are so.
gregorydragon
Juvie Member
How are the cane toads affecting our beloved beardies?
kirby
Extreme Poster
gregorydragon":64943 said:
they arent yet down to the beardies.
in a way, they are stuck in queensland, due to their demands on climate. there, they are killing off snakes, goanas, birds, frogs and anything that eats or gets eaten by something their size.
they have been found in sydney :shock: which is BAD news... they spread like crazy, and are causing catastrohic effects on our wildlife.
jscott":64943 said:
LOL !!!!!! who is that, sarah palins husband?
kirby
Extreme Poster
jscott":672cb said:hehe, i am not involved enough in politics to know. i was just looking for a stereotype american businessman and he fit the bill.
glad you enjoyed it.
p.s. stay away from my pet bald eagle!
p.p.s. did you like the $5,000 arrowana in the $5 bowl :lol: ?
lol. i dont know what sarah palins husband looks like, or if she even has one.. but with the amount of endangered and exotic animals, he could fit the bill... evil woman.
yes, the arrowana was a nice touch. the only time i have ever seen them was in a HUGE aquarium at the hotel i was in, in the Philippines. and in a horribly over crowded tank on Youtube.
they look like female, or short finned Betta's.
BestRoach
Hatchling Member
In regards to the liger, it has to be a female tiger and male lion. This is because the trait that determines size (limits growth) is present in the male tiger and female lion. When the female tiger and male lion are crossed, their offspring lack this size limiting feature and hence grow to enormous proportions. It’s most likely a pituitary defect...the same kind present in many super tall humans (7ft+). If you look at a Liger, many of its features are distorted....this further supports a pituitary issue.
But that is a side point.
In regards to GG, I will agree with the majority of the posters and say most GG blood has been incredibly thinned in American breeding stock. Most large dragons are likely due to selective breeding, and not GG blood. I have a 24" male named Oscar, and was told he had GG blood. Knowing how long ago true GG hybrids existed, Oscar's size is most likely due to good genes. He is 15 months old and around 550-600 grams.
Being a roach breeder, I have the pleasure of noticing generational changes at a much faster rate than bearded dragons. Roach breeders have to be mindful of their average roach size shrinking, as smaller males mature faster and hence breed faster. I recently traded stock with several other breeders, and was astonished at how small their roaches were. This may be due to them purposely sending me small insects, or it could be due to lazy breeding. Either way, through selective breeding (removing all small males), I have managed to maintain a large size roach. The same is most likely true for bearded dragons (selective breeding) that are referred to as GG. GG is nothing but a marketing tool nowadays, and I doubt any GG sold today has more than 1/16th P. Barbata.
Do I wish the US stock could receive a nice boost from true GG? Yes I do, but I also know that would mean another species of animal being exploited for nothing more than retail gain. I fully support all export restrictions placed on Australian wild life, and wish there was a way to protect more of their native species....such as P. Barbata. I would like to see some breeding regulations placed on US dragon breeders, but that is unlikely to happen. Its great bearded dragons make such nice pets, but unfortunately this means the species will continue to be exploited for nothing more than money.
I really shouldn’t judge however, as I make a good portion of my income feeding these animals, and saying the above makes me sound like a hypocrite.
I should clarify that I was referring to the shady breeding operations that purposely turn out these mutated morphs, or don't care at all about their reptiles. The breeders present at BD.org all appear to actually care about the animals they are selling.
But that is a side point.
In regards to GG, I will agree with the majority of the posters and say most GG blood has been incredibly thinned in American breeding stock. Most large dragons are likely due to selective breeding, and not GG blood. I have a 24" male named Oscar, and was told he had GG blood. Knowing how long ago true GG hybrids existed, Oscar's size is most likely due to good genes. He is 15 months old and around 550-600 grams.
Being a roach breeder, I have the pleasure of noticing generational changes at a much faster rate than bearded dragons. Roach breeders have to be mindful of their average roach size shrinking, as smaller males mature faster and hence breed faster. I recently traded stock with several other breeders, and was astonished at how small their roaches were. This may be due to them purposely sending me small insects, or it could be due to lazy breeding. Either way, through selective breeding (removing all small males), I have managed to maintain a large size roach. The same is most likely true for bearded dragons (selective breeding) that are referred to as GG. GG is nothing but a marketing tool nowadays, and I doubt any GG sold today has more than 1/16th P. Barbata.
Do I wish the US stock could receive a nice boost from true GG? Yes I do, but I also know that would mean another species of animal being exploited for nothing more than retail gain. I fully support all export restrictions placed on Australian wild life, and wish there was a way to protect more of their native species....such as P. Barbata. I would like to see some breeding regulations placed on US dragon breeders, but that is unlikely to happen. Its great bearded dragons make such nice pets, but unfortunately this means the species will continue to be exploited for nothing more than money.
I really shouldn’t judge however, as I make a good portion of my income feeding these animals, and saying the above makes me sound like a hypocrite.
I should clarify that I was referring to the shady breeding operations that purposely turn out these mutated morphs, or don't care at all about their reptiles. The breeders present at BD.org all appear to actually care about the animals they are selling.
kirby
Extreme Poster
lol.. 'shady'
i don't think shady is the term, more, 'hungry for the obscure' with disregard for the animals, or the future at hand.
you can't tell me a beardie without scales is beneficial or a positive aspect to the animal. i have nightmares that ill hatch one out, the poor little things.
i don't think shady is the term, more, 'hungry for the obscure' with disregard for the animals, or the future at hand.
you can't tell me a beardie without scales is beneficial or a positive aspect to the animal. i have nightmares that ill hatch one out, the poor little things.
gregorydragon
Juvie Member
Excellent point! A beardie without scales is just...a salamander. :shock:kirby":75991 said:
No offense to those who love and raise amphibians, but I don't want one. At least not to replace my beardie.
protiemama
Gray-bearded Member
Interesting point on breeding for profit. As any animal gets more popular it will be inbred until defects occur. Look at those nasty little purse dogs the super rich are so fond of. The poor things have so many health issues they are almost impossable to keep them alive for long. 
If you want a purse pet, get a stuffy. It isn't just the small dogs either, large breeds are having more and more probs with serious hip probs. I thought I was safe with a "mutt". But her dad must have been pure Golden and she is developing a bit of a strange gait. I'll take her in for x-rays when I save up enough. She doesn't seem in pain, but many are.
As beardies gain popularity as a pet the same will happen to them. They will be bred for size, both large and small. Folks already breed for color. As for scaleless beardies- Isn't that what slick backs and smoothies breeders are trying for?
What I ment earlier about exports- If Aussies would allow us some fresh bloodlines of any kind, (commons would be best) Sensable breeders could try to strenghthen all the blood lines here to acheive a healthier pet. Regulation would have to come from within. Like the AKC is trying to do now with dogs. To little, too late IMO. Beardie lovers could keep some healthy lines going while others breed down "fancy" lines. We can't save them all but could at least save some.
I too don't like to get into politics, however- Do not call someone evil if you do not have the facts. :x Sarah is a great person, and a naturalist. She is NOT wealthy, her husband owns fishing boats and fishes for a living. Watch the Discovery channel to find out what kind of job that is!!! I have seen those folks first hand, its a hard life. Yes, her family hunts, as does mine. They eat what they kill. And yes moose is delicious. One moose can feed a good size family for most of an Alaskan winter. Folks up there also hunt and eat bear. The added benefit with bear is the skin can make a great coat for the harsh wintew or even a blanket. The Native Americans used the whole animal and no one could call them evil. To my knowledge Sarah Palin has no exotic pets and does not hunt exotics. Get the facts,( not liberal propiganda) before you call someone evil.
That is all I will say on that
Sandy H
If you want a purse pet, get a stuffy. It isn't just the small dogs either, large breeds are having more and more probs with serious hip probs. I thought I was safe with a "mutt". But her dad must have been pure Golden and she is developing a bit of a strange gait. I'll take her in for x-rays when I save up enough. She doesn't seem in pain, but many are.As beardies gain popularity as a pet the same will happen to them. They will be bred for size, both large and small. Folks already breed for color. As for scaleless beardies- Isn't that what slick backs and smoothies breeders are trying for?
What I ment earlier about exports- If Aussies would allow us some fresh bloodlines of any kind, (commons would be best) Sensable breeders could try to strenghthen all the blood lines here to acheive a healthier pet. Regulation would have to come from within. Like the AKC is trying to do now with dogs. To little, too late IMO. Beardie lovers could keep some healthy lines going while others breed down "fancy" lines. We can't save them all but could at least save some. I too don't like to get into politics, however- Do not call someone evil if you do not have the facts. :x Sarah is a great person, and a naturalist. She is NOT wealthy, her husband owns fishing boats and fishes for a living. Watch the Discovery channel to find out what kind of job that is!!! I have seen those folks first hand, its a hard life. Yes, her family hunts, as does mine. They eat what they kill. And yes moose is delicious. One moose can feed a good size family for most of an Alaskan winter. Folks up there also hunt and eat bear. The added benefit with bear is the skin can make a great coat for the harsh wintew or even a blanket. The Native Americans used the whole animal and no one could call them evil. To my knowledge Sarah Palin has no exotic pets and does not hunt exotics. Get the facts,( not liberal propiganda) before you call someone evil.
That is all I will say on that
Sandy H
kirby
Extreme Poster
protiemama, i dont think you should hunt.
especially your native fauna, especially those who can reproduce to cope very well.
here in Australia, its extremely common to eat kangaroo. i beleive this is more environmentally friendly then cows. You may need to hunt for food, but so do some tribes in Africa. some of them choose to hunt Primates like chimpanzee's... is this acceptable? you could have caught some salman? lol
i could hunt koala's or platypus, but i wouldn't fund that, kangaroos are MORE then sustainable. so are salmon
im known amongst friends as the wanna-be hippy, or the future vegan extremist. im Pro-environmentally friendly. from what little ive seen of sarah palin, if you needed to hunt bear, or moose, and you needed so desperately to hunt this animal, when you have the option of a supermarket. and you needed so desperately the fur for warmth, clothing, coats. why would you gloat bear skin, and moose heads in offices, as a couch cover!!!!!!. and wear expensive designer clothes while campaigning. surely they had enough money to either visit the store, or buy organic, free range. but no. her ideals are obviousely different. she doesnt care about sustainable, animal friendly options. she is pro oil drilling in arctic national wildlife refuge, doesnt think the polar bear or baluga, are worth the endangered species list. is pro aerial shooting of bear and wolves (this obviousely isnt, hutning for food... its game hunting). and doesnt her husband work for Bp.
yeh, this may be propaganda etc. but i dont think her ideals/opinions are right.
especially your native fauna, especially those who can reproduce to cope very well.
here in Australia, its extremely common to eat kangaroo. i beleive this is more environmentally friendly then cows. You may need to hunt for food, but so do some tribes in Africa. some of them choose to hunt Primates like chimpanzee's... is this acceptable? you could have caught some salman? lol
i could hunt koala's or platypus, but i wouldn't fund that, kangaroos are MORE then sustainable. so are salmon
im known amongst friends as the wanna-be hippy, or the future vegan extremist. im Pro-environmentally friendly. from what little ive seen of sarah palin, if you needed to hunt bear, or moose, and you needed so desperately to hunt this animal, when you have the option of a supermarket. and you needed so desperately the fur for warmth, clothing, coats. why would you gloat bear skin, and moose heads in offices, as a couch cover!!!!!!. and wear expensive designer clothes while campaigning. surely they had enough money to either visit the store, or buy organic, free range. but no. her ideals are obviousely different. she doesnt care about sustainable, animal friendly options. she is pro oil drilling in arctic national wildlife refuge, doesnt think the polar bear or baluga, are worth the endangered species list. is pro aerial shooting of bear and wolves (this obviousely isnt, hutning for food... its game hunting). and doesnt her husband work for Bp.
yeh, this may be propaganda etc. but i dont think her ideals/opinions are right.
atreyu917
Juvie Member
jscott":ab696 said:
lol :lol: ... you make it sound as if all americans are rich oil tycoons, whos aim is to buy up all remaining endangered species.
well now, i cant speak for everyone else but heres a pic of my wealthy pets and i :wink: :
P.S. sorry for going off topic.
Oh my god. that is hilarious. I almost peed myself. haha not really. but it was funny.
gregorydragon
Juvie Member
OMG! After all these years, I FINALLY know what "the man" looks like! Sweet! Thanks jscott :laughhard:jscott":86dc5 said:well now, i cant speak for everyone else but heres a pic of my wealthy pets and i :wink: :
P.S. sorry for going off topic.
bloodshoteyes
Member
just bought 3 german giants was told that they would get to be 29" one i have grew 3 " in 2 months
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