German Giant question

[Gardori817]

cant completely prove it but i know for a fact she is at least 1/3 GG

 

[gregorydragon]

If my math is correct, 1/2 GG = 1/4 P. Barbata. Because a FULL GG is half P. Vitticeps and half P. Barbata, right? does it matter which of the parrents was PV and which was PB? As I mentioned earlier, it could be similar to the "liger" which means the father MUST be a lion and the mother MUST be a tiger, otherwise you get a smaller "tigon". Would the mother have to be P. Barbata since they are naturally larger?
:?: I'm starting to confuse myself.

 

[kirby]

cant completely prove it but i know for a fact she is at least 1/3 GG

see when a breeder breeds a GG X red they call it GG x red,

when the GG Red is bred with an orange, its off spring is called GG Red X Orange. when that is bred with a yellow.

its GG Red Orange X yellow. the GG is still in the name of the parent, even tho your offspring is only 1/8 GG, and 1/16 barbata OR LESS.... and the characteristics mostly outbred. considering after the initial creation of the GG, the next step was colours, most lines were flooded with colours less GG. yet people still keep the GG name as its popular and sells.

i would assume the reason you think your dragon is at least half GG, is because the father/mother had GG in her name, its most likely that her great, great grandmother had it in her name too.. lol...

the ut-most top GG/Barbata breeders in Germany are still even having trouble creating 1/2 B, or even 3/4 B. it is possible, and will soon be more possible to get an actual 3/4 B- or X C.

(THATS CONFUSING!!!!) lol

If my math is correct, 1/2 GG = 1/4 P. Barbata. Because a FULL GG is half P. Vitticeps and half P. Barbata, right? does it matter which of the parrents was PV and which was PB? As I mentioned earlier, it could be similar to the "liger" which means the father MUST be a lion and the mother MUST be a tiger, otherwise you get a smaller "tigon". Would the mother have to be P. Barbata since they are naturally larger?
:?: I'm starting to confuse myself.

alright, i just realised the Liger doesnt work as they are infertile.. LOL

assuming theoretically that genetical material is 50% xx and 50% xy. which it isnt.

originally, larger animals were used, so i dont think it matters which the father is.

ooooo i love this conversation, its like a mind work out. considering i hate sudoku, this is good stuff..

 

[gregorydragon]

If the GG lines are really that watered down, then it would seem that size can be passed to offspring just like colors. :study: If we Darwinize the breeding process and only the biggest and strongest (and most colorful) are bred then we don't need GG officially anymore. If that 24-26 inch male with 1/32 Barbata ancestry is bred with that 24-26 inch female with even less Barbata ancestry, then it doesn't even matter (IMO). Then again, it doesn't matter anyway, but having GG in the name is appealing (hence the marketing). I like this post too!
:book: :study:
A 6' 8" Swedish man has a child with a 6' 0" Russian woman in 1900 and they move to the US. Their children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc. continue to marry and have children with people who are at least 6' tall. In 2008 they may be far removed from Sweden and Russia, but their physical characteristics are passed on (Genetics) and they will most likely have a very tall family that does not specifically identify with either country except to say that their great grandparents were born in those countries.

 

[maxattack]

You guys are boggling my mind, so if you have two dragons that are 1/16 GG from different lines, and they are bred, does the offspring then turn out 1/8 GG?

 

[gregorydragon]

You guys are boggling my mind, so if you have two dragons that are 1/16 GG from different lines, and they are bred, does the offspring then turn out 1/8 GG?

No. You cannot regain ancestry unless one of the parents is closer to "purebred". If one parent was 1/16 GG then the other would have to be 1/4 GG for the offspring to be 1/8 GG.

 

[kirby]

personally, i think the size thing is more likely selective breeding then B genetics.

 

[gregorydragon]

Yikes! Got me on that one. I'm on geneticist. What are "B Genetics"? Is that like...2nd generation or something? So the genetics are not as important as the environment in which the beardie grows up?

 

[kirby]

Yikes! Got me on that one. I'm on geneticist. What are "B Genetics"? Is that like...2nd generation or something? So the genetics are not as important as the environment in which the beardie grows up?

lol. B refering to Barbata Genes.

if you selective bred dragons for size, like we do colours. its possible to get these larger animals, even if the original german giant genetics is miniscule or in nill effect. simply larger animals producing larger animals. being kept well producing sizable stock and lines.

in captivity, there is NO survival of the fittest, weak animals, or defective live, and even breed. so our captive stock, is weaker, less durable etc.

its like humans, we have more disorders, deformities, down sydrome and mental disorders because science and hospitals are advanced enough to keep these people, and these 'less hardier' humans live. its like the spartans, they were thought to have only used strong, lively babies, raisign an army of soldiers (ok, maybe its just the movie 300, im no Greek researcher)

 

[gregorydragon]

lol. B refering to Barbata Genes.

HAHA! :laughhard: Why is everyone moving so fast? I feel really S-L-O-W (mentally) on that one. :laughhard: Thanks for clarifying.

its like the spartans, they were thought to have only used strong, lively babies, raisign an army of soldiers (ok, maybe its just the movie 300, im no Greek researcher)

I can't find documentation to prove it right now, but I remember learning in school that the Spartans (I think it was them) would throw deformed and really sick babies off of cliffs. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: That sounds horrible and I wish I could find something on it to cite.

 

[kirby]

I can't find documentation to prove it right now, but I remember learning in school that the Spartans (I think it was them) would throw deformed and really sick babies off of cliffs. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: That sounds horrible and I wish I could find something on it to cite.

in a way, thats how you would make long, robust animals through selective breeding (soldiers)

and in a way, in captivity, were doing the opposite, were breeding those weaker animals who wouldn't survive in the wild. i have seen people on forums who for these reasons, feel culling weak animals is 'ideal'... like in dogs we've turned back evolution, line bred for qualities (size, coat, colour, temperment) and now they are very unlikely to survive in the wild like wolves.

 

[maxattack]

lol. B refering to Barbata Genes.

HAHA! :laughhard: Why is everyone moving so fast? I feel really S-L-O-W (mentally) on that one. :laughhard: Thanks for clarifying.

its like the spartans, they were thought to have only used strong, lively babies, raisign an army of soldiers (ok, maybe its just the movie 300, im no Greek researcher)

I can't find documentation to prove it right now, but I remember learning in school that the Spartans (I think it was them) would throw deformed and really sick babies off of cliffs. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: That sounds horrible and I wish I could find something on it to cite.

Taken from Wilkepedia

Eugenics is a social philosophy which advocates the improvement of human hereditary traits through various forms of intervention.[2] Throughout history, eugenics has been regarded by its various advocates as a social responsibility, an altruistic stance of a society, meant to create healthier, stronger and/or more intelligent people, to save resources, and lessen human suffering.

In Sparta, infants were examined at birth and if they were extremely deformed, cachectic or sickly they were placed in the Apothetae[41] (Greek language, ????????), meaning "depository" as Plutarch describes. This practice was part of the Spartan institution known as agoge. This was a chasm under Taygetus.

 

[protiemama]

"Facinating" to quote my favorite "scientist". :lol: This is way too much brain exercise for my sick self. I DO love these intilectual exercises, when I am well. The Spartans weren't the only ones to practice this. The latest of note were the Nazis. We all know how that worked out. Even civilised cultures have practiced a for of "selective breeding" in this century. The insane and mentally retarded and those with other birth defects were routinely "steralized" to prevent the spread of those undesirable traits. This was often done with the permission of the parents. (sometimes not) I don't know if you can find this info on line as it is not "Polliticaly Correct". But way back before colleges were liberalized, the info could be found in psycology and socioligy text books. Sorry I got rid of mine. It made for some interesting and scary reading.
As for bearded dragons. I would think it would be in the best interest of the specises for Austrailia to allow the export of some pure animals to re-establish a sturdier, healthier animal in the rest of the world. I can understand no imports, Aussie ecology has been devistated by thoughtless imports. But why not export? :dontknow:
Please do keep up the discussion. This is great! Also,forgive my spelling, I really am dislexic.

Sandy H

 

[kirby]

I would think it would be in the best interest of the specises for Austrailia to allow the export of some pure animals to re-establish a sturdier, healthier animal in the rest of the world. I can understand no imports, Aussie ecology has been devistated by thoughtless imports. But why not export? :dontknow:
Please do keep up the discussion. This is great! Also,forgive my spelling, I really am dislexic.

Sandy H

the same thing will happen again, the 'pure' or 'new blood' animals will be line bred from what few were exported. again, leading to related pairings and selectivelyt bred animals havign their genetical material depleted overtime after initial rebuilding.

for it to work, it would have to be heavily governed. which will never happen

 

[Rosebud]

There is one on Kingsnake for $2800, and a few others for $3500-$3750. If you could figure out a way around customs, you'd be rich, my friend! Well, after you give me MY baby. :wink: