Cinnamon Dragon is Very Sick. UPDATE: Cinnamon's Gone

[msmaui]

First you'll want to concentrate on the area where he basks the most, so lay the probe so that it is resting on that area. Then check the cool side with the probe laying on the bottom, then we'll go from there. But, make sure to wait about 45 min for the temp to stop rising before you get the final readings.

Let's discuss the fecal before we get into the feeding discussion. So, the white part is normal, that's the urate (urine) and it should be soft, not hard, rubbery or yellow, otherwise it can mean he is somewhat dehydrated or being fed too much calcium. There should be a brown area, if there is a grayish part, that could be from the chicken babyfood, was there a part that was pinkish? What do you mean "Looks like pieces of his insides or something!" Did you get a picture of it? When you look at his vent area, does it look closed or do you see something hanging out of it? Does he seem uncomfortable at all, how is his coloring, any darkened beard or end of tail noted?

There was no urate at all. It just started with the yellowish/brown. At the end of that it sort of changed color and texture to grayish pinkish, kind of pieces. No pictures. I don't have a camera. I just let him out again a few minutes ago and he tried to poo again. (That's the third time today.) This time it was just kind of like mucuus with a little blood in it. He's running around the living room though like he's feeling better. He doesn't seem uncomfortable and his vent is closed. He's looking for a dark place so he can go to sleep. His coloring is dark but he's been like that for weeks now. His beard isn't real dark though and his tail seems okay.

 

[diamc]

Isn't that strange that there wasn't any urates. Are you sure that the yellow part wasn't the urate? Keep a close eye on his poop and if you see mucous and/or a little bit of blood again, it would be a good idea to at least have a fecal check done. It's possible that he was a little impacted and had to push a little too hard so be sure to keep him very well hydrated. Are you offering fluids by mouth too? The Electrolyze should help with that mixed with water. That's good that his vent is totally closed as at first I was afraid that he had a prolapse.

 

[msmaui]

Isn't that strange that there wasn't any urates. Are you sure that the yellow part wasn't the urate? Keep a close eye on his poop and if you see mucous and/or a little bit of blood again, it would be a good idea to at least have a fecal check done. It's possible that he was a little impacted and had to push a little too hard so be sure to keep him very well hydrated. Are you offering fluids by mouth too? The Electrolyze should help with that mixed with water. That's good that his vent is totally closed as at first I was afraid that he had a prolapse.

I'm positive there was no urates. There wasn't any yesterday either. I tried to give him a little water yesterday by syringe but he was fighting and I'm not sure if I got any down him. He won't even drink and when he's in the tub. Even when I try dropping drops from my finger on his nose/mouth. I'll keep a close eye on him tomorrow and see if there's any change. Thank you.

 

[diamc]

Yes, let me know & good luck.

 

[msmaui]

Yes, let me know & good luck.

For breakfast, I tried live crickets and then some worms, which were always his favorite. He wouldn't have anything to do with either one. Then I gave him his liquid calcium. There's just a few drops left. I mixed squash with Benebac and Electrolize and tried and tried to get him to lick it off his nose. No luck at all so he had to have it by syringe. Tomorrow I will start his Jump Start. Then he had his bath. He's walking around the house really well though and going to look out the glass door. He's still dark but his beard isn't black any more. His poo looked more normal today but still no urates. Strange, huh. Now I'm just sitting back watching him, waiting for him to get well. :?

 

[diamc]

Oh gee, I was really hoping that he would lick some of the food off by himself, that would be so much less stressful for him & for you. So, he won't even attempt to lick it? It's good that you got some food into him though & that he has been out & walking around, also good that his color looks better. Is he active in his tank & is he going to the basking area on his own? Do you have any reptile vets in your area? A checkup might be a good idea because I'm concerned that he's not passing any urates and I know you are keeping him well hydrated.

 

[msmaui]

Oh gee, I was really hoping that he would lick some of the food off by himself, that would be so much less stressful for him & for you. So, he won't even attempt to lick it? It's good that you got some food into him though & that he has been out & walking around, also good that his color looks better. Is he active in his tank & is he going to the basking area on his own? Do you have any reptile vets in your area? A checkup might be a good idea because I'm concerned that he's not passing any urates and I know you are keeping him well hydrated.

Yes, I had him at the vet on 09/10. He goes to his basking area on his own. He spends almost all day there but I guess that's pretty normal. He had the biggest runs tonight when I took him out to feed him. I couldn't believe it!! Luckily I got a napkin under him just in time. Wonder what caused that? The past couple of days it seems like he takes a poo whenever I take him out of his viv.

 

[msmaui]

Could you please tell me about how much of the Jump Start I should give him? We just went through a terrible dinner feeding! He just fights it so much any more. I can't get him to open his mouth. I was using my thumb to try to get him to open and he bit me so badly he almost took a chunk out. He wasn't trying to bite me, just to keep his mouth closed. I barely got any food in him. I'm starting to get desperate.

 

[diamc]

Oh gee, sorry that he chomped your thumb, make sure you clean it good & put on antibiotic ointment, hope you're up-to-date on your tetanus shots.
You don't need to give much Jump Start, just about a small squirt, like about 1/2 inch, followed by water to help him swallow it. You should actually be able to put it in a little babyfood or stir it up in a little warm water.

When you took him to the vet last month, was it because he wasn't eating or was there something else going on? Have you been able to find the Repta-aid? That may help with the appetite.

The soft stool is probably from all the liquids you're giving him. Is he losing any weight?

 

[msmaui]

Oh gee, sorry that he chomped your thumb, make sure you clean it good & put on antibiotic ointment, hope you're up-to-date on your tetanus shots.
You don't need to give much Jump Start, just about a small squirt, like about 1/2 inch, followed by water to help him swallow it. You should actually be able to put it in a little babyfood or stir it up in a little warm water.

When you took him to the vet last month, was it because he wasn't eating or was there something else going on? Have you been able to find the Repta-aid? That may help with the appetite.

The soft stool is probably from all the liquids you're giving him. Is he losing any weight?

Gee, thanks about the tetanus shot. That really makes me feel better (ha, ha). When I took him to the vet last month it was because he wasn't eating, his color was real dark and his beard was black most of the time, and when I put him on the floor he would just walk about 2 steps and then lie down. He's really much better than he was. He runs around again now. His beard isn't black anymore. I don't think he's lost any weight. He's a little over 500g.

I don't have the Repta-aid. I just have the Electrolize, Jump Start, and Bene-Bac. You think I need the Repta-aid too?

 

[diamc]

Since he isn't losing weight, I would almost suspect semi-brumation except that he is continuing to bask, run around some and not falling to sleep sooner.

I looked up the info and ingredients of those 2 products so I'm thinking that the Repta-Aid would replace the Electrolize and the Jump Start. I've also heard that they like the taste of it. Might be easier on you too, having it all in one product.

Repta-Aid acts quickly to rehydrate and nourish insectivorous and carnivorous reptiles. Reptiles introduced into new environments may stop eating (anorexia) and drinking. If left untreated, these animals can become dehydrated or develop nutrition related disease. Emergency Aid was developed to assist these animals during periods of stress.

For use with bearded dragons, geckos, chameleons, boas, ball pythons, monitors, frogs, corn snakes, and other insectivore/carnivore reptiles and amphibians.

This complete kit includes Repta-Aid powder, cup, spoon and feeding syringe and is for use with reptiles weighing up to 3 ounces.

Ingredients:
Egg product, wheat flour, starch, isolated soy flour, corn oil, dried brewers yeast, dried kelp, calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, pollen, dextrose, sodium chloride, potassium sorbate, dl-methionine, lecithin, choline chloride supplement, potassium chloride, spirulina, manganese sulfate, mixed natural tocopherols (antioxidant), zinc sulfate, magnesium oxide, ascorbic acid, beta carotene supplement, niacin, vitamin E supplement, copper sulfate, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin A acetate, calcium pantothenate, vitamin D3 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, ethylene diamine dihydriodide, biotin supplement, folic acid, sodium selenite.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude protein 28%, carbohydrate 37%, crude fat 20%, crude fiber 1.5%, moisture 10%, calcium 0.85%, phosphorus 0.7%, Ca 1.2:1, kcal/g 4.4.

Electrolize: Health care product Conditioner that restores and maintains electrolyte levels Prevents or reverses metabolic bone diseases Helps in re-hydrating new reptiles Stimulates appetite activity and normal behavior Strengthens the immune system. Net wt. 1 oz. (30 ml) Per 2 drops : Dextrose (9.5 mg), Potassium (1mg), Calcium (0.25 mg.), Magnesium (0.1 mg), Sodium (0.1 mg)., Weight: 2 lbs., Manufacturer: HAGEN

 

[msmaui]

Thank you very much for your help! I was wondering about brumation but he's never brumated in his life and since I live in the Los Angeles area I didn't know if he would do that. And yes, he does bask constantly.

 

[diamc]

Actually, they can brumate no matter where they live or at least semi-brumate, that's what ours do but we live in the cold northeast. So, he isn't going to sleep any earlier now than he was 3 to 4 months ago either?

You really might want to consider the Repta-Aid, may make it easier for you & for him.

 

[vickson420]

Hi
I have been following the thread and didnt have too much to add.I did myself also think he may be brumating which truth be told can happen anywhere and even sometimes in different seasons so this is a strong possibility however you really need to make sure those temps are spot on because that could seriously affect his behavior.Also I have found the repta aid is better for long term use.Jumpstart shouldnt be used for long term where the repta aid can and also I wouldnt use the pedialyte if your using either one it could be too much on the kidneys.

 

[msmaui]

Hi
I have been following the thread and didnt have too much to add.I did myself also think he may be brumating which truth be told can happen anywhere and even sometimes in different seasons so this is a strong possibility however you really need to make sure those temps are spot on because that could seriously affect his behavior.Also I have found the repta aid is better for long term use.Jumpstart shouldnt be used for long term where the repta aid can and also I wouldnt use the pedialyte if your using either one it could be too much on the kidneys.

Actually, he seems to sleep all the time on top of his branch, under the basking lamp. He might come down once for about a minute but goes right back up there. He even sleeps up there so I really can't tell if he's going to sleep earlier. Now I don't know if I should continue to force feed him and continue giving him these medicines or just leave him alone.

You mentioned the pedialyte, I'm using Electrolize. You think I should stop that?

EDIT: I forgot to tell you, when I first to him to the vet he was also doing those horrible head-shaking things that look like seizures. He hasn't done those for a long time now. When I took him back a week later the vet said, "At least he's still alive. He was looking pretty bad".

I've noticed he does look out the window occassionally while he's on his branch.