Cinnamon Dragon is Very Sick. UPDATE: Cinnamon's Gone

[msmaui]

Cinnamon is 4 1/2 yrs old and I've had him since he was a baby. About a month ago he stopped eating and became very lethargic. I've taken him to two different vets. The first one had no idea what was wrong and sent him home with some antibiotics. A few days later I took him to another vet that diagnosed him with MBD. It's my fault because I had forgotten to change his UVB light for a long time. (I cried for the first week.) She prescribed an antibiotic (SMZ-TMP Suspension) and NeoCalcium Gluconate. She also gave me Carnivore Care to feed him with a syringe. I took him back a week later and he seemed like he had improved a little. At least his color was better and he was walking better. That was short-lived though. Withing just a couple of days his color got dark again and he's still lethargic. I gave him the antibiotic for 2 weeks and I have about one more feeding of the calcium. I just ran out of the Carnivore Care and I've been giving him babyfood. In the past couple of days, when he goes poo it seems like there is no urate. That probably means he's dehydrated. A month ago I bought a new UVB light which was a Repti-Glo 10. Today I bought another one, a Repti-Sun 10. He also has a basking lamp and the temperature on the warm side is 98 degrees. He still has to be force fed (which we both hate). I give him a bath every day. Today I also bought some Electrolize (I couldn't find ReptaAid), some canned pumpkin, and chicken babyfood.

Before he got sick his diet was dusted, gut loaded crickets, mustard greens, yellow squash, and Craisins. He hasn't been a big eater for several months. I'm so frustrated and I feel so badly for him. I just don't know what else to do. I've spent over $400 on him in the last month and since I live on Social Security I just can't afford to keep that up. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I lie awake nights worrying about him.

 

[diamc]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear that you are having concerns with your beardie. Is he losing weight? Is your Repti-Sun a strip fluorescent, coil or compact bulb? How close is he to this bulb? What type of thermometer are you using to check the temps? Is the basking bulb white or a colored bulb? Are the UVB and basking lights alongside each other?

Did you give him probiotics while he was on the antibiotics? What symptoms was he having when the vet mentioned MBD? What substrate are you using on the bottom of his tank?

You mentioned that you're force-feeding the babyfood. Have you tried putting it on his nose to see if he'll lick it off? That's good that you're bathing him daily, that must help a little. Once you answer these questions, we will try to help further.

 

[Kazul]

I hope you stopped using the Repti-Glo 10.0 when you got the Repti-Sun 10.0. How long had he been on his old UVB light before you got the Repti-Sun?

If you can't find Repti-Aide (we have it at Pet-Smart in my city), I was told that instead of baby food to try watered down low-sugar gatorade, watered down pedialyte, or watered down ensure. I'm not fully sure what the parts should be.

 

[msmaui]

He spends almost all his time on his branch which is about 4" from the UVB light, which is right next to his basking light. I guess it's called a strip, it's the long glass tube. His basking light is a white light. The thermometer I'm using is just one of the round Kritterz stick-on thermometer. I meant to get a probe one today but forgot. He hasn't really lost weight. His substrate is newspaper. I tried paper towels today but they don't work well. They slide around to easily. He won't lick the food off his nose. I've tried that. What are the Probiotics? The vet said his mouth looked kind of saggy (?) which showed MBD and that his front legs were like too muscular looking (she called them Popeye legs) which is also a sign of MBD.

 

[diamc]

Kazul is right, you have to take it easy with chicken babyfood as it contains a lot of protein. You could mix a very small amt in squash babyfood & add some Pedialyte to thin it. Pedialyte is very good as it will help raise his electrolytes and you can dilute that with 3 parts water to 1 part Pedialyte. I would worry about giving Ensure though because beardies can't digest dairy products. Another thing you could pick up is Jump Start and mix that with food or a liquid. You can read about it here: http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=1809

 

[msmaui]

That's what the guy at Reptile Depot said the Electrolize is--a jump start. However, when I got home and took it out of the box it said the expiration date was 05/2008. Maybe I should just get the Pedialyte.

 

[diamc]

This must be what you just got: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752529 which also helps increase appetite & adds vitamins and nutrients.

 

[msmaui]

Yes, that is exactly what I bought. Do you think it would be a good idea to give him the Jump Start also? Can I put it in his food? I can just get that syringe in his mouth so many times.

 

[diamc]

I wouldn't give him both on the same day though. Yes, you could mix it in his food.

It's good that you're using the fluorescent UVB rather than a coil or compact. He should be 6 to 8" from the bulb though, 4" is a little too close.

I would suggest you get a digital thermometer with probe because those other ones can be off by as much as 20 degrees.

You wondered about probiotics to settle his stomach, there's Benebac, Acidophilus and soy yogurt (no dairy) and any of those would be good.

 

[msmaui]

Thank you. I'll get a probiotic. Do you have ANY idea how I can get him to start eating on his own? Should I give him the Electrolize/Pedialyte once or twice a day.

 

[diamc]

I think once you get an accurate thermometer, give him the probiotic to help with the possible stomach upset & give him the Jump Start, you should start to notice a difference in his appetite. I suggest you still offer live food daily though before you forcefeed and even try handfeeding. If he wasn't basking almost continuously, I would consider it to be brumation because of the loss in appetite. Walmart has the digital thermometers with probes and here is a picture of the $12.00 AcuRite brand, it also measures the humidity level:

With this one, you lay the probe end so that it is touching the basking surface and place the thermometer part right on the cool side, wait about 45 min for the temp to stop rising, then the "out" reading will be for the basking side & the "in" reading for the cool side. If you end up getting a digital with probe with only one reading, then you will have to wait 45 min for the basking temp then move the probe to the cool side & wait another 45 min for that reading. These types of thermometers are in Walmart where the plastic thermometers are sold. I suspect his temps are too cool right now and that's why his appetite is decreased & he is laying right in that one spot most of the time, but please don't change anything until you get the new thermometer. Please keep us updated on how he's doing, ok?

 

[msmaui]

I got the probe thermometer, Bene-Bac and Jump Start. The temperature up at the top of his branch (where he likes to keep his head) near his heat lamp is 108. That's the very hottest spot. His branch is at a slant so the temps go down from there. The cool side is 76.

The BeneBac says to give every other day. The Jump Start just says squeeze a small amount in his mouth 3 times a day. What do you think? Also, I have the Electrolize.

 

[diamc]

Hi, that's great that you got the probe thermometer, is it just like the one pictured? So, the 108 reading is what you got when you set the probe up or did you have to make an adjustment to get those temperatures, just curious. I would start with the Benebac in case his stomach is upset from the antibiotics. You can try putting a small amt on his nose first to see if he'll lick it off and if not, mix a small amt in a small amt of babyfood with a little of the Electrolize. I would wait until tomorrow to give the Jump Start and again, would try a little on his nose first. The Benebac & Jump Start are usually well liked by them. If you have to squirt the Jump Start in his mouth, make sure you go in on the side & only give a small amt as it is very thick & can cause them to choke if given too much. Let us know how it goes.
Do you have any other babyfood besides the chicken, like squash, applesauce or mixed vegetables? Since the chicken has a lot of protein in it, you have to go very easy with that. Is the Electrolize a liquid or a powder?

 

[msmaui]

Hi, that's great that you got the probe thermometer, is it just like the one pictured? So, the 108 reading is what you got when you set the probe up or did you have to make an adjustment to get those temperatures, just curious. I would start with the Benebac in case his stomach is upset from the antibiotics. You can try putting a small amt on his nose first to see if he'll lick it off and if not, mix a small amt in a small amt of babyfood with a little of the Electrolize. I would wait until tomorrow to give the Jump Start and again, would try a little on his nose first. The Benebac & Jump Start are usually well liked by them. If you have to squirt the Jump Start in his mouth, make sure you go in on the side & only give a small amt as it is very thick & can cause them to choke if given too much. Let us know how it goes.
Do you have any other babyfood besides the chicken, like squash, applesauce or mixed vegetables? Since the chicken has a lot of protein in it, you have to go very easy with that. Is the Electrolize a liquid or a powder?

No, I didn't make any adjustments but also I didn't get a chance to take the temps a little farther down his branch. I had just fed him and he had his bath and I wanted to get him back under his lights. The probe is on the very bottom of his cage right now and it's just 82.4. As for the babyfood, I have squash and apples & chicken (mix). The Electrolize is liquid. It says just use 2 drops per ounce which sure doesn't seem like very much. I tried again today to see if he would lick it off his nose and he won't.

Also, his poo is looking VERY strange. First comes out the rather normal looking poo but then there's something very strange looking, like kind of whitish, pinkish, grayish PARTS. Looks like pieces of his insides or something!

Thank you sooo much for all of your help

 

[diamc]

First you'll want to concentrate on the area where he basks the most, so lay the probe so that it is resting on that area. Then check the cool side with the probe laying on the bottom, then we'll go from there. But, make sure to wait about 45 min for the temp to stop rising before you get the final readings.

Let's discuss the fecal before we get into the feeding discussion. So, the white part is normal, that's the urate (urine) and it should be soft, not hard, rubbery or yellow, otherwise it can mean he is somewhat dehydrated or being fed too much calcium. There should be a brown area, if there is a grayish part, that could be from the chicken babyfood, was there a part that was pinkish? What do you mean "Looks like pieces of his insides or something!" Did you get a picture of it? When you look at his vent area, does it look closed or do you see something hanging out of it? Does he seem uncomfortable at all, how is his coloring, any darkened beard or end of tail noted?