Sulfatrim - When to worry?

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Sulfatrim - When to worry?

Postby daviEnnis » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:44 pm

Beardie has been on sulfatrim for what feels like forever.

He started in October for very high coccidia. Measured again November, December, and now. Count has decreased significantly since the last one (from 16000 to 2000).

Vet wants to go another 3 weeks and asked if I think he could tolerate that, I said yes. Not sure if it's a horrible coincidence in timing but yesterday and today his appetite is way down (but not gone) and he's incredibly lethargic.

At what point should I worry beyond him just temporarily feeling crappy? My main worry is avoiding putting him in a life threatening position, or something that can't be reversed. If he was approaching that I'd rather give him some relief from the medication and fight coccidia again later.

He's still eating an ok sized meal once a day.
He's still pooping on average once every one and a half days. They've also been very dry last two days so I'm upping amount of water I'm giving him via syringe.
Probiotics daily (also via syringe.. I'm now essentially using more water in the mix).
Housing etc already verified as ok (T5, 38-40c basking spot, etc).
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Re: Sulfatrim - When to worry?

Postby AHBD » Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:07 pm

Personally I would stop completely right now, there's too much damage that can be done by sulfa drugs when used for such a long period of time. You can at least give your dragon a much needed break from the meds. for a while. If and when you do resume medicating, ask for Ponazuril rather than what your vet was using, it often works in 2-3 doses. If the vet is not familiar with it I would find another vet ASAP. I'm surprised that your dragon is even in as good shape that he's in after all those sulfa drugs.
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Re: Sulfatrim - When to worry?

Postby daviEnnis » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:14 pm

AHBD wrote:Personally I would stop completely right now, there's too much damage that can be done by sulfa drugs when used for such a long period of time. You can at least give your dragon a much needed break from the meds. for a while. If and when you do resume medicating, ask for Ponazuril rather than what your vet was using, it often works in 2-3 doses. If the vet is not familiar with it I would find another vet ASAP. I'm surprised that your dragon is even in as good shape that he's in after all those sulfa drugs.


Ponazuril is a myth in Scotland :) what damage does the sulfa drugs do?

My worry is, given the absolute zero ways to get ponazuril, I'll give him a break but then require another 2 months back on sulfatrim at some point.
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Re: Sulfatrim - When to worry?

Postby AHBD » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:28 pm

Oh, too bad you can't get Ponazuril. Long term sulfa drugs can do liver + especially kidney damage. They can wipe out the good gut flora as well despite the probiotics.
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Re: Sulfatrim - When to worry?

Postby daviEnnis » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:37 am

AHBD wrote:Oh, too bad you can't get Ponazuril. Long term sulfa drugs can do liver + especially kidney damage. They can wipe out the good gut flora as well despite the probiotics.


Thank you. I'll monitor him closely - he is only on 2 doses per week, so in reality he has around 5 doses total left until we hope he's at the end of the treatment.

If he doesn't pick up somewhat in the next day or two I'll abandon this track entirely and give him a break (he has had little 'moments' like this before where he has appeared to be going backwards for a couple of days, then suddenly full of life again).
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Re: Sulfatrim - When to worry?

Postby AHBD » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:37 am

Oh, good thing it wasn't being given every day. Hopefully he'll be good in the long run after this. Good move getting the probiotics in him , keeping up with hydration is important as well.
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Re: Sulfatrim - When to worry?

Postby daviEnnis » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:09 pm

I'm probably being paranoid. The last 2 days his rear legs seem much weaker, like he's timid to use them, but then when he actually does use them he seems to be moving fine to me.

His poos are too big for him to be suffering an impaction I believe. Basking temps are 38 Celsius. He has calci worms, locusts and gut loaded dubias as his staples. He's not eating at his peak but still enough to not seem like an emergency (around 20 calci worms this morning and 3 dubias this evening).

Does everything look ok to people? Pics and videos below are from the coffee table, don't worry I've not filled his tank with keys and wallets.

Video walking: https://streamable.com/l9b1qr

Image

Image
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Re: Sulfatrim - When to worry?

Postby AHBD » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:28 pm

He looks fine and I see no walking problem at all. He's a beautiful Dunner, hope he lives a long + healthy life !
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Re: Sulfatrim - When to worry?

Postby Drache613 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:46 am

Hello,

He is very colorful indeed! It didn't appear that he had any trouble walking but I do agree that
long term use of sulfa based meds can contribute to renal issues or gout.
Does he have high counts of coccidia?
I would also consider trying to get him put on some type of probiotic. You can look for a non
dairy acidophiliz or non dairy organic soy yogurt. This can help replenish the gut flora for him.
Let us know how he is doing.

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Re: Sulfatrim - When to worry?

Postby daviEnnis » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:28 am

AHBD wrote:He looks fine and I see no walking problem at all. He's a beautiful Dunner, hope he lives a long + healthy life !


Thank you!

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

He is very colorful indeed! It didn't appear that he had any trouble walking but I do agree that
long term use of sulfa based meds can contribute to renal issues or gout.
Does he have high counts of coccidia?
I would also consider trying to get him put on some type of probiotic. You can look for a non
dairy acidophiliz or non dairy organic soy yogurt. This can help replenish the gut flora for him.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie


It was originally 'very high' but I didn't ask for a count. It was then 16,000. And then in the most recent count was 2,000. The vet did ask if I thought he could tolerate some more treatment (due to lockdowns they're only doing physical appointments where absolutely necessary) and I said I think he could - she then advised to continue for another 3 weeks then another fecal test (0.02ml, 2x a week.. I'd given him a dose the morning that the vet called, so it was really 5 more doses to try and get rid of that last 2,000).

I give him Reptoboost daily. I take a half teaspoon, mix it in a very small cup of boiled water, syringe out around 0.15ml, wait for it to cool then syringe feed him it (I give him little bits, around 0.02-0.03ml at the time, in to the side of his gum so its not squirting down his throat or anything). Would it be beneficial to either replace this with non dairy organic soy yoghurt, or add non dairy organic soy yoghurt on top of this?
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