Vet wants me to consider putting down

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
Man she is such a sweetie, she still looks tired but she also look happy 😊
She’s been dealing with some shed and not wanting to eat or drink much lately so she’s not been to happy and now her leg seems like it’s bothering her some so she’s not had a good few days. She’s seems happy but gets ran down easily.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Brandon,

I will look that up, because it might have been a mix of milk thistle & serrapeptase you saw because
I don't think milk thistle itself has serrapeptase in it. They are two separate compounds.
As far as I know, neither supplement should interfere with any medication that she is on, as they are
all natural & very safe.
Will she be on the other medications for awhile, or do you know?
She seems to be doing pretty well though. Try to keep her well hydrated daily & hopefully her strength
will start to come back soon.

Tracie
 

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
Hello Brandon,

I will look that up, because it might have been a mix of milk thistle & you saw because
I don't think milk thistle itself has serrapeptase in it. They are two separate compounds.
As far as I know, neither supplement should interfere with any medication that she is on, as they are
all natural & very safe.
Will she be on the other medications for awhile, or do you know?
She seems to be doing pretty well though. Try to keep her well hydrated daily & hopefully her strength
will start to come back soon.

Tracie
Hi again Tracie..
You’re probably correct and I may have misunderstood what I read. I tried finding the article I saw online but unless I typed in something different I’m not finding it. I’ll try to look more for it when I get home. As far as I know she’ll be on these meds probably all her life as the specialist talked. If there is a place I can order some I’ll try it on her or ask the vet if I need a prescription if she goes this week.

So now some bad news. I was correct with how she was walking yesterday and mentioned it seems to be how the swelling starts. Today her paw is swollen again and she just wants to sleep or lay around. I got her to take 1ml of collard greens, water, and black cherry juice slurry and 2ml of just water today is it so far. Seems like we get a week or 2 no issues and she’s dealing with swelling again. Last time the 6ml of fluids for 4 days and a vitamin b injection seemed like it fixed the problem or it was just a coincidence with timing that it went away.

Would you happen to know if lack of vitamin b cause swelling? Or even if something she eats could be causing it? Like I said she was doing great with everything even walking a little then she started shedding and at that time she started wanting food and water less and less. So I don’t know if maybe something in her blood work that was flushed out her system maybe have built back up from not drinking but her poo don’t seem like it’s solid or anything. I have been trying to keep track of what all she’s been eating and how much. If it would help to post that to see if it’s food related I can go back and list everything for last week or two if needed. I just really want to get to the bottom of this and try to fix it for good.

Edit: just got her a bath and she acts as if her front legs are both bothering her even though I only see swelling in one. Her back leg on same side is also swollen in the paw it looks like but it also looks like it’s shedding so I don’t know if that would cause it to swell up a lot. I got her to take about another 6ml of water she wasn’t happy. Now I’m getting ready to turn off lights and let her sleep until med time. Hopefully some rest will help.

One more quick question, I noticed after her bath she seems to have some black spots on her bottom half that I never noticed before. I never had pores clog on them so not sure if that’s what it is. If so what’s best way to treat that?

Again sorry for all the questions. Just trying to get to the bottom of everything. And I been second guessing myself a lot lately.
 

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Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Brandon,

I wouldn't worry about the pores, they aren't clogged. Those are just femoral pores which in females
are greatly reduced in size as compared to the males.
If you can get a picture of her hands so we can see any swelling, that would be good. I don't think that
B vitamin deficiency would cause swelling but it wouldn't surprise me if she had a few deficiencies just
due to the stress she has been under for awhile. Thiamin deficiences can cause symptoms that are
similiar to metabolic bone disease in the fact that there are tremors, twitching, etc.
Keep her hydrated as much as you can. You can continue with the black/tart cherry juice too if she
doesn't mind it too much.
Shedding can cause the area to appear swollen, yes. Has her beard been dark or normal color?
It wouldn't hurt to give a B complex supplement for awhile. It is water soluble so it shouldn't become
toxic in her system.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
 

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
Hello Brandon,

I wouldn't worry about the pores, they aren't clogged. Those are just femoral pores which in females
are greatly reduced in size as compared to the males.
If you can get a picture of her hands so we can see any swelling, that would be good. I don't think that
B vitamin deficiency would cause swelling but it wouldn't surprise me if she had a few deficiencies just
due to the stress she has been under for awhile. Thiamin deficiences can cause symptoms that are
similiar to metabolic bone disease in the fact that there are tremors, twitching, etc.
Keep her hydrated as much as you can. You can continue with the black/tart cherry juice too if she
doesn't mind it too much.
Shedding can cause the area to appear swollen, yes. Has her beard been dark or normal color?
It wouldn't hurt to give a B complex supplement for awhile. It is water soluble so it shouldn't become
toxic in her system.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
She’s about the same today. I do have some pics of her feet I’m trying not to pick her up so she won’t move them to much so I can’t get a pic of the bottom that’s swollen bad on the one also. The back leg I believe is swollen some but it also is a bit discolored so I’m wondering if that one is from the shed. The front though is the same thing we’ve been going through about every month now since her original surgery. I’m trying to cut back on some foods incase it’s them and focus more on just water. So mainly for a few days she’s going to be getting just collard greens or kale slurries with a bit of green beans or fruit for flavor. She does like her black cherry juice so I’ll give her a bit of that daily to.

She has an appointment wed night to be looked at again. They said they could get me in today in emergency visit but I’d either have to drop her off while she dr was in surgery and they would just notify me of things going on when he got a chance to look at her or we could come in around 5 and it could take a few hours to be seen if they could get to me today. They are closed tomorrow so I guess wed is my best bet.

Is there anything you can think of I should ask the vet to possibly look at? I heard some marines they can drain the foot and test the fluid if they have any on. I’m going to ask about that.

Also I found that article mentioning serrapeptase in milk thistle I’ll give the link and add a pic here for a quick glance. If you don’t think it is correct or it wouldn’t hurt to get her some to go along with her milk thistle I’ll get some to try. I’ll ask the vet about it to incase I need a prescription. Also I’ll bring up the thiamin to see what they think.



Edit: I forgot to mention her beard is still the same color. When I touch her feet she sort of moves them away or at least tries but it’s only when I wake her up or first start lightly touching them. Then she seems to be fine with them being touched so I don’t think it’s painful more of like a weird feeling but I could be wrong.
 

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Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Brandon,

Thanks for the pictures! She does have some swelling for sure, but hopefully it will start to go
down again. As far as the Milk Thistle, it contains Silymarin which is the active ingredient/compound
that is in it. I will need to do some research about Milk Thistle having serrapeptase in it naturally, unless
it is added into it. I have honestly not heard of Milk Thistle naturally having serrapeptase in it.
Her hands & feet look off color so that is most likely some shedding getting ready. Her swelling had gone down right after surgery, correct?
How is she acting, still a bit more energetic & basking?
Do continue with the black/tart cherry juice right now, just in the case she might be having some renal
issues. Let us know if you do end up taking her into the vets.

Tracie
 

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
Hello Brandon,

Thanks for the pictures! She does have some swelling for sure, but hopefully it will start to go
down again. As far as the Milk Thistle, it contains Silymarin which is the active ingredient/compound
that is in it. I will need to do some research about Milk Thistle having serrapeptase in it naturally, unless
it is added into it. I have honestly not heard of Milk Thistle naturally having serrapeptase in it.
Her hands & feet look off color so that is most likely some shedding getting ready. Her swelling had gone down right after surgery, correct?
How is she acting, still a bit more energetic & basking?
Do continue with the black/tart cherry juice right now, just in the case she might be having some renal
issues. Let us know if you do end up taking her into the vets.

Tracie
She had swelling the day she went in for surgery. When I picked her up it was gone completely. About a week or 2 later it came back. When I took her to this new vet locally he ended up giving her fluid injections 4 days in a row on top of what liquids I was getting her to take to flush out her system some. He said the calcium was to high which we’ve had been dealing with that and not giving calcium since around December. Each time she got the fluids she seemed to do better. About third day she was trying to climb my seat in the car. After fourth she wasn’t perfect but she was wanting down and walking some.

A few weeks later we went to the specialist for stitch removal and she even said she was extremely surprised that Zilla looked and acted the best she had ever seen her. Then about a week and half ago she started shedding a lot around the face and started slowing down on food and water more and more. Besides her bugs she rarely gets, yellow squash, and fruit she would eat by hand everything with greens had to be in slurry since her surgery. So I would get a little a day into her but not force her during the shed but she’d still take blueberries and squash at first on her own. Her bugs sometimes it would take a few attempts throughout the day before she would want them. I’d only give 5-10 BSFL a week and the occasional horn worm. Other than that she would get a little turkey or chicken baby food mixed into her slurry for protein maybe once a week if that. No added calcium or vitamins or anything like that. So everything she gets comes straight from what’s in the food.

She stated getting less active fri and how she was waking I had a feeling the swelling was coming back. Then it did. She can’t walk she acts like her legs bug her so bad when she tries she can’t bend them or straighten them out almost like they are stiff or sore and they are a bit jittery when she does try to move. When she gets to hot she’ll try to move but for most part she just lays. We’ve been going outside most the day when nice and she’ll hold her head up without leg support when out and be very alert but soon as we come back in she’s ready to go to bed. She even tried to sleep when I have her under her lights but they are to bright and she can’t. She went potty a few days ago when taking a nap and pulled herself up maybe a few inches after going. When I went to get her up she had it all over her tail and just left it lay in it she’s that weak or sore at the monomer in the arms. Last night I put her in the tub and she went to one place and laid the entire time and finally went. Very little white even though I’ve been really pushing the water last few days and it wasn’t a pure white had some darker almost grayish tint to it. The poo itself was dark like she’s been eating a bunch of insects but she hasn’t had any in about a week. It’s been fruits and veggies is all.

I don’t understand why this keeps happening. Seems like fluids the vets give helps or it takes forever for her to get over these spells only to pop up again. I give her slurries and water daily. A little fruit every day or 2. We spend most our time in the natural sunlight instead of in her cage lights. I took her off crit care, vitamins, calcium like the vets wanted. Am I giving her to many slurries that has something in them causing it? Not enough fluids? Is there something else going on? So many questions going through my mind and I just want an answer at this point. I’m worried I put her through the surgery and now she’s always going to have this happen if I made the right choice choosing to do the surgery. Anyways we do go to the vet tonight so I’ll update if I find out anything.
 

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
Just got back from vet. Wanted to post the update separate so anyone interested in still reading what’s going on don’t have to read through a wall of text to find it.

The vet looked at Zilla and asked how she did with the fluids last time. I told him why the Ohio vet said and showed a video of her playing in the shower from a few weeks ago so he could see the difference. He didn’t do any tests on her. He wants to try the fluid again and see how she does. He said it could be she is struggling to recover from the surgery since they are slow healers and that the follicles may have drained a lot of the fluid in her, even though she is going potty some like she was over hydrated a bit for a week that her body may still not have held enough fluids and her shedding making her not want to eat or drink really drained out what helping her get by. He gave her double the fluids tonight what he did give her before. He gave her 12ml and a bit of vitamin b to perk her up some. The next 3 days we go back for 6 ml a day. If she’s doing better what he wants to do is maybe wait for 3 or 4 days then give her another 2 or 3 days or fluid to help make sure she’s getting what she needs. The. Go from there and maybe see if we want to give more a bit down the line or call it quits after that and just see how she does. If there isn’t any change over next few days of fluids then we may have to run test to see what else could be happening.

He doesn’t believe it to be gout, arthritis, or anything like that since she doesn’t seem to have pain, just doesn’t like to be touched in the paws and the joints aren’t what is swollen.

As of tonight o may be mistaken but she already seems to act a bit better. When I laid her own under her blanket for bed she walked a little to a different place. Not perfect walk but it was a major difference from not being able to really move her arms. Then when I looked back at her she turned around and was looking out of the covers. So hopefully the fluid does help and thats all it is this time. Guess we’ll find out in next few days how she will be feeling.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Brandon,

I'm glad to hear she seems to be doing better. So the vet doesn't feel that it is gout or anything like
that? I'm hoping the extra fluids will help out. Are you giving oral fluids or the subcutaneous fluids?
She has really been through a couple of major ordeals. The anesthesia alone is hard on them but I
agree that follicles could definitely drain her & most likely dehydrate her also.
It does sound like the fluids did help out. I hope she starts feeling better & becoming more mobile!
She deserves the progress!

Tracie
 

Hazel_Basil10

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Hazel my female two year old beardie
She is darling! So sorry to hear about all what going on about her. She is a cutie and fighing to live and I can tell!:) Keep it up!
 

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
She is darling! So sorry to hear about all what going on about her. She is a cutie and fighing to live and I can tell!:) Keep it up!
Thank you. She’s been my support and keeps me sane since I got her. I hate putting her though all of this but I can’t give up and keep hopping we get all the issues fixed.
 

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
Hello Brandon,

I'm glad to hear she seems to be doing better. So the vet doesn't feel that it is gout or anything like
that? I'm hoping the extra fluids will help out. Are you giving oral fluids or the subcutaneous fluids?
She has really been through a couple of major ordeals. The anesthesia alone is hard on them but I
agree that follicles could definitely drain her & most likely dehydrate her also.
It does sound like the fluids did help out. I hope she starts feeling better & becoming more mobile!
She deserves the progress!

Tracie
I’ve been to four vets now since the swelling started after her first surgery, and all of them say any blood work shows no sign of gout. The swelling doesn’t seem to be in the joints but the paws and sometimes legs themselves. They are injections again unfortunately. I hate putting her through this again. I’d rather have someone stick me 50x a day than her get stuck repeatedly.

Last night she did move around some in her sleep to get more comfy instead of laying in one spot like she has been lately. On the way to the vet today I had her on my lower chest and she tried to crawl up on my shoulder. At the vets I didn’t see the dr but asked the nurse if he had said anything about her progress. He said she acts a little better to him. When they tried to get a weight she was fighting to get off the scale today, yesterday she just didn’t even try. They said they gave 10ml of fluids today in her.

I tried to take her to the park afterwards to get some sun for a bit but she just seems exhausted after the vet. She wouldn’t even eat for me probably feeling full from all the fluids I’m hoping. I finally got her to take a blueberry when she got hot and she liked some slurry I made out of kale, water, and black cherry juice. I made it pure liquid so she could just lick it if she wanted. She also got mad at me once and put one of her paws she’s had issues with up and push my hand away. We tried to stay at the park a bit but I don’t know if it’s just to hot for her right now (we’re high 80s) or she’s just ran down from everything. So we came home and she was ready for bed. I’m going to let her sleep a while then try to take her outside again later.

By the way I did ask the nurse to ask the dr about the serrpeptase and she brought back a print out and said I could give it s try. He said it looked like a lot of people recommend a website called beardeddragon.co he even did the math for me to see how much I could give daily so I’m going to order some to try. He never said anything about her milk thistle so either it doesn’t contain any or he never looked it up. But I do have one quick question before I order. The site that he recommended it says the dosages do include calcium in them. With her calcium high is that dose daily going to cause issues? Or is there a better place to order that doesn’t have calcium in it?
 

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hdochow

Sub-Adult Member
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Sir Henry of Scales
i've bought from beardeddragon.co before, but it was only for cleaners, so i'm not sure how their supplements are.

tracie sells serrapeptase on her website, but i'm not sure what all is in it. Serrapeptase - Bug-De-Lite maybe shoot her a message about the calcium level in it?
 

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
i've bought from beardeddragon.co before, but it was only for cleaners, so i'm not sure how their supplements are.

tracie sells serrapeptase on her website, but i'm not sure what all is in it. Serrapeptase - Bug-De-Lite maybe shoot her a message about the calcium level in it?
Thanks I’ll have to ask. I didn’t realize she had a website or even sold the stuff.
 

hdochow

Sub-Adult Member
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Sir Henry of Scales
no problem! we get liquid calcium and vitamins from her. (sir henry refuses any food with powder on it.) great order turn around time and haven't had any problems with an order or product.
 

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