Talon, Moya, Dargo and Zhaan

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Hello,
I have a long story to share and not sure where to post it so if I'm in the wrong section please forgive me. Also, there will be pics coming soon!
So, here is our story, a story of 2 sick Beardies. This site has been a God Sent! Anything I did right I learned from here! Some of you may have read about our cl rescues. I posted it in Beardie rescue but don't know how to provide the link. In August my husband and I rescued the 2 sweetest Beardies you could ever know! We named them Talon, {male} and Moya, {female}. They were pretty sick when we got them on the 3rd of August. We took them to a vet, {that mis-sexed our male,} on the 4th of August, They were medicated with 3 different meds, for pin worms, Coccidia and another thing that I can't remember. They took the full course of meds over the month as the vet ordered. The follow up fecal on September 3rd was neg, all "cleared up" per the first vet I took them to.
Thru that month both had appetite issues from being sick and no doubt related to the meds. Talon more than Moya. So, I fed Talon chicken, turkey, squash and applesauce baby food with calcium {and vits added once during that week}. by syringe 3 times a day for a week since he would eat nothing, not one morsel. Moya was eating a bit but also had a very poor appetite so I syringe fed her several times when I didn't believe she had eaten enough. They both were so under weight when we got them. I also gave them both soy yogurt daily since one of the meds was an antibiotic. Slowly he began to eat again, hurray! and her appetite improved. I had always noticed some clicking and popping sounds coming from Moya, and upon listening, also heard it from Talon and in my inexperienced stupidity, I thought it was the sounds they normally made. {Oh, please forgive me my beautiful sick little babies!} Then on Sept. 22 while feeding Talon a small super worm I saw him go to pick one up and clear tan-ish liquid poured from his mouth. It was phlegm. It scared the living daylights out of me! The next day Sept. 23, we took them on an emergency visit to a new vet who was advertised as an experienced exotic/reptile Vet. I hadn't been impressed with the first one. OMG, what a difference! Dr. Keller actually gave them a real physical, going over them both with a fine toothed comb! Unlike the first vet I took them to who held them, pushed on their heads and handed them back, and had a tech check a fecal. Dr Keller checked and moved all of their joints, arms, hands and fingers and legs, feet and toes, and checked their tails too! He checked inside their mouth and looked in their ear holes with a light, he listened to their abdomens and lungs with....are you ready....a stethoscope! He checked their vents. He checked their belly's for constipation and impaction. I told him how we rescued them off of cl and the condition they were in, that they had been seen by another Vet the day after we got them and was medicated for their issues at that time, and had a neg. follow up fecal. I must say that our sweet little babies were excellent at the doctors and tolerated it all without complaint. We hold them several times everyday, play time, snuggle time, treat time, and "don't need a reason to" cuddle time so they both are very comfortable with being handled. Dr. Keller asked all the right questions I would expect a knowledgeable Vet to ask.....enclosure size?......did they have separate enclosures?...... UVB lighting, heat and humidity?....substrate?....diet with greens and live feeders dusted with calcium daily and vits once a week?.....exercise?...... And I told him they get a bath everyday at 9:30 am, and always poo in the bath, and get rinsed in running water of course....lol.....hurray, always clean, spotless enclosure!
OMG! I just can't say enough good about this Doc. As a side note both he and his Vet partner wife had their own Beardies when they were growing up.
Well, both of our beautiful babies had respiratory infections, and probably had had the RI before we got them since I was hearing that clicking in August and the guy that had them before had put them in a damp basement. They both got an injection of Baytril and a script of oral Baytril for 7 days then a recheck on October 3rd. When we went back for the recheck, they still had a few crackles in their lungs so he extended the meds for another week with a recheck in 2 weeks on the Oct.24th. Dr. asked about their bowels due to the antibiotics. I told him I was giving them soy yogurt daily and it was working, no loose or watery stool. I told Dr. Keller Talon was eating very well but Moya was eating nothing at all, that I was syringe feeding her 3 times a day so she wouldn't loose the weight she had gained. He said the Baytril can be very harsh on their GI tract and some Beardies loose their appetite, to continue what I was doing and be sure to offer her feeders and salads daily even though she wasn't eating right now.
We went back for the check up on the 24th. Talon and Moya were both still sick and started to have few fine popping and crackling sounds again. Neither was eating on their own. I had brought a fecal to see if it had anything to do with their poor appetites. They both had tons of pin worms again, and that Coccidia. Dr Keller treated them for it with the meds Albon, Panacur, and continued another 5 days of Baytril. Dr Keller believed their immune systems had been kicked hard by their early non-care and neglect but with all the good and proper care and nutrition they were getting at home now he believed once we could get it all cleared up they would be fine. He doesn't believe at this point it is chronic. So on Nov 7th went back to the vet for check ups. Lungs clear....hurray!.... and fecal neg.....hurray! Talon is eating very well, to well...lol...my fault. He now weighs 540 gms, up from the 120 gm in august, and he is now 17 1/4 inches, but has lost part of his tail, he's my Chubster. Moya weighs 410 gms, up from the 144 gms she weighed in August when we got them, and she is now 16 3/4 inches and also has lost some tail, she is my Little Miss.
Only issue now is Moya's appetite. She still isn't eating anything....nothing! So Dr. Keller checked her all over again and said he felt the bump/lump that tells him she is constipated even though she was passing a tiny amount of stool everyday, I had thought it was tiny because I was feeding her the baby food. So he instructed not to feed her on Tues to see if she could get hungry and stimulate her to eat, warm baths 4 times a day for 20 minutes with very gentle tummy rubs and do it for 48 hours. She had a strange episode in the bath one eve, her 4th bath of the day, she got all dark, almost black all over her whole body and her eyes closed and she started to put her head down, I grabbed her out of the tub, she was limp for about 10 seconds though it seemed like forever, then she perked right back up, put her happy colors on and you'd never know what just happened, What the heck was that? And yes, I'm asking the Vet when we go back Monday. His plan if the warm baths didn't work go to plan B, go back to feeding her baby food like I had been and feed her some baby food applesauce with some olive oil added to it, at least 2 cc's of it and continue the warm baths 4 times a day So I did all that. No BM, so next day I tried one more thing, I gave her about 3 cc's of warm baby prunes, warm baths and tummy rubs. Well, that did it. She cleaned out, so happy she wasn't impacted. But she still is not eating yet. At the last visit Dr. Keller said there is an appetite stimulant he could give her if needed. Well, Monday I'm on my way back to the Vet for her lack of appetite and to see about that stimulant and to ask about that episode she had in the tub, Thank God that hasn't happened again!
Just a note. I am not independently wealthy! The Vet, Dr. Keller, has been so good to us. His office visit for exotics $50 each. He only charged us $50 for the office call for seeing both of them on that first visit and only charged me meds for one but gave me enough for both of them. On all the other visits he has only charged me $25 for the office call, that is seeing and treating both of them. He has only ever charged me meds for one but always given me meds for both of them. He only charged me for 1 fecal though he did both. He's our hero!
So, that is our story. 5 Vet visits in 3 months, and another on Monday. It's been a long 3 months, lots of medications and lots of time and love and finally they are near healthy.
When they crawl up my blouse to my shoulder, wiggling and settling in to snuggle into my neck, when they look up at me and speak with those beautiful eyes, when they always show their happy colors whenever I pick them up, when they don't want to return to their enclosure and hug onto my arm, when they come to the front of their enclosure and sit down patiently waiting for me to pick them up, when they step into my hand to be picked up, when they get a shot at the doctors and run across the exam table and up the front of me to hide under my chin, when they lay sleeping so beautiful and peaceful on my chest, when I look over at my snoozing husbands and one of them is curled up in his neck snoozing too, when they look right at me when I call their name, these and a million other reasons are why I'm in love with them! My husband and I are both retired and we can think of nothing we would rather be doing than being caretakers to these wonderful, sweet, beautiful creatures. We are so very happy we found them, and we are humbled to be able to share their life with them!
I hope you enjoyed our story and it continues.............


I
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Here are out 2 new rescues from HowlinGaledragons. {See her thread in Beardie Rescue}
Here are a few quick pics of #5, female, named Zhaan. And #8, male, named Dargo.
shortly after arriving....stress marks visible.....we only had them together for a few minutes,
each has their own home.
101_2676-1.jpg

beautiful dragons!
101_2670.jpg


This is the male, Dargo
101_2668.jpg

101_2665.jpg

ready for bed
101_2683-2.jpg

What do you mean lights out in 5?....
101_2687.jpg


...and the female, Zhaan
101_2666.jpg

101_2667.jpg

ready for bed
101_2685.jpg

what do you mean it's bed time?
101_2690.jpg

they both ate very well, about a dozen dusted crix each the first meal, about 15
to 20 small roaches the second and third meal. They are doing great!
I hope you enjoyed the pics, I hope it isn't to many!
Amanda
 

Ravyn

Member
What an emotional journey reading your story has been. I wiped tears a couple times. How wonderful you and your 4 loves have found each other. Thanks for the inspiring thread and I have your 4 rescues in my thoughts and prayers.

Ravyn
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Rayvn,
Yes, it has been an emotional journey, and I've shed a few tears too! Moya is healthy :blob5: :blob8: and continues to brumate. She weighed 410 gms 3 1/2 weeks ago when she went to bed and stayed there. I wake her weekly on Wednesdays for a hydration soak, she drinks a bit, basks til nice and dry and goes back to bed for another week til I get her up again. I weigh her when I get her up, yesterday she weighed 403 gms. Only has lost 7 gms in 3 weeks of sleeping and no eating. Talon has finished his course of antibiotics and so far hasn't shown any more signs of a RI :blob5: :blob8: and he seems to be slowing down. I think he's getting ready to brumate too. Our new girl, Zhaan has a mild RI, she was exposed to it by some of the rescues she was with but I knew that as Nicole, the woman who rescued them let us all know on her rescue thread. I've increased her tank temp to 105 to 108 and keeping it about 85 at night with a CHE. The heat should help, and she's on an antibiotic and probiotics so she should recover fine as these rescues weren't neglected as our other 2 were. Our new boy Dargo seems healthy and thriving with no problems but I'm monitoring him closely as both Zhaan and Dargo were shipped together. So, that's an update on our cuties. As we all know beardies become part of us almost immediately! They seem to have a direct line to our hearts! Thank you for your good thought and prayers for our 4 beardies. Their story continues......
Amanda
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Merry Christmas to my BeardedDragon.org family. We wish everyone a wonderful holiday!
Amanda, Kim and our crew, Talon, Moya, Dargo and Zhaan
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
I started a thread in health. I'm copying it here just to keep this thread current.



I found fungus on Moya's beard today!
by dragonlover3 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:26 am

Damned! {sorry} Moya has been in brumation since the about the second week of November. I have the date she quit getting up written in her chart. I can get it, but just to tired right now, been straight out for about 4 hours. I found fungus on about 1/3 of her beard today. A dark-ish grey/black-ish jagged, zig zaged area diagonal across her beard closest to her neck. It looks exactly like pictures on here of fungus! I go over every inch of her every week before her bath, after I weigh her. It wasn't there last week....well it wasn't visible last week. I checked all 3 of my other dragons with a fine toothed comb and see nothing right now! I went and got a bunch of stuff and started treatment on her. Witch hazel gently "combed" several times thur all the folded, wrinkled beard tissue with a soft kids tooth brush, betadine body and beard bath, then betadine full strength on the site, then monistat applied? Is that a good treatment? I should have gotten lamisil too I think. I read about those here thought I'd use them all and really try to kill it but I don't want to hurt her either? What do you think ? Then I started tearing apart, cleaning and disinfecting her viv and then did a betadine rinse inside the viv, cleaned and disinfected the scale, I've thrown almost everything out, bleached and disinfected what I didn't throw out, washed all 3 of my other dragons cloth stuff, just in case, their blankies, their towels, their beds, I have all separate stuff for them all but washed everything anyways and dried on high for 45 minutes...is that enough? And I isolated all of her things and put paper towels down in her viv so I can change them everyday. Help me, I've probably for got something? Just Dam It! Sorry for the swearing. I'm just so
Since she went into brumation I've been waking her once a week for a hydration bath, a drink, a bask til nice and dry then she goes back to sleep in her sleeping house, a big corner in her house I made into a darkened hide/sleeping area for her. All plush with acrylic sheep skin,fleece blankies, a stuffy to lay on if she wanted and was so proud of her brumation comfort. I have always made sure she was completely dry before letting her go back to sleep for another week. But obviously I MESSED UP! somewhere and she's paying for it. I thought I was so careful about drying/basking her and I found fungus on her beard today.... What else can I do?....I know I'm missing something. All I've been reading about it on here says it's almost harder than sin to get rid of, if you ever can. I even read it has to be treated for life and can spread all over her and cause a bunch of health issues. She was sick when I rescued her, had lots of health problems with recurrent respiratory infections, More on her story in my other thread. Just got her well just before she went in to brumation after fighting that RI with 4 courses of antibiotic. And yup, gave her soy yogurt first them got acidophilus and started giving that instead of the soy yogurt.

Ok, so...what else can I do for her? I think I want to give her some antifungal orally now while it's small and she's healthy. I know it can be hard on them but I don't want it to spread on her, treating it topically to no avail as she gets sicker and sicker only to try the oral antifungal after she has debilitated and is weaker and sicker....does that make sense to anyone? I know Tracie mentioned on another fungus thread that she can possibly get oral antifungal with out a perscription. I think I'll PM her too!

Sorry, I know I seem panicked, but is there anything else I can do, other treatments to do, herbals, foods?
Any advice is welcome. My poor Moya..it is my fault, I must have missed something!
Amanda
 

falcor33

Juvie Member
amazing story of your rescues! they look fantastic, what healthy dragons they are now!!
i'm so glad they are all well now! they look so happy with you! isnt it great when they reward you with happy colors and snuggles?? it's the best feeling in the world!!!! :love5:

keep us posted with lots of pics and stories, we'll be watching!!! :blob5:

falcor and tolkien send you their best beardie wishes for the new year!
 

jewl495

Juvie Member
Amanda you didn't mess up at all! These things Just happen, mold and fungal spores are every where. It sounds like you are doing everything right just keep a close eye on it. You will need to soak her twice a day with the betadine and apply the monistat twice daily as well. I would take her to the vet and have him take a skin scraping to culture this. The vet probably won't want to do oral medication just yet. I will tell you that yes this can be a pain in the rear to get rid of BUT it can be done. Not all dragons have this forever so don't panic. :) Some dragons will fight it for life but it won't always be an everyday thing. Sometimes it will seem like its gone and then just before they shed it pops back up. I feel that the dragons who fight it for life have internal gut flora issues and that the slightest changes in there system with trigger the fungas.
You might want to check out Thug's thread in the beardie tails section if your not already on there, Mike is also dealing with fungus and things seem to be going well.
Julie
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Julie,
Thank you so much for the encouragement! I am a bit....well maybe A LOT freaked out and still feel responsible, but it was kind of you to say it just happens sometimes. I was so hoping that fungus wouldn't become an issue after we rescued Moya and her brother Talon in August. They both had persistent recurrent respiratory infections and were on 4 different courses of oral Baytril after having injections to start with. I've been what I thought was ultra careful with drying them after baths and basking dry, and watching their bodies.
I will check out Thug's thread. I'm hoping that little one is fighting the fungus well. That would be encouraging too! This morning I went and got lamisil and lotrimin and more monistat. I don't know what is best to use on her, but wanted to have them all on hand in case someone has had better results with one over the other. I also got hibiclens for bathing, it contains chlorhexidine which some vets give and use as an anti-fungal treatment on animal skin. I was going to ask Tracie if that can be used with the betadine? I want to attack this as much as I can with all that I can but don't want to make her sick with too many treatments.
I will do the baths and treatments twice a day. I didn't realize it could be done twice a day, I thought only once a day, so I'm glad you let me know. I'll give her a second treatment about 4pm giving her plenty of time to bask dry before bed. She hasn't been a happy camper today, I removed everythign including her sleeping/hide for brumation and have full lights back on. I want her to get the UVB to help dry that fungus up. So, I took her out of brumation, not letting her go back to sleep in the cool dark, that's prime for fungus growth. I hope it doesn't mess her up by waking her up and keeping her awake. Thanks again for the encouragement. It's nice to know it can be beat!
Amanda
 

ShannyBeard

Extreme Poster
Amanda! OMGGG no wonder you are such an expert. You really have been through a lot with your beardies! Bless your heart - you are such a dedicated beardie mommy. WOW. I've learned several things just from reading you thread here. Thank you for sharing all of your experiences. We all can learn so much from each other.

And your dragons are precious. The looks on their faces seem to be exactly how you caption your pictures. :lol: :lol:

Shannon
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Shannon,
No, not an expert at all! :oops: but happy I can share the bit I've come to know and most of it from right here on this forum Yup, my first 2 little rescues were a mess, but doing ok now except for this latest thing, that fungus on my Moya's beard. :banghead: It has been a long road since I first got them, lots of sleepless nights, many office visits, lots of meds, xrays, blood work, and phone conferences with my Vet, and hours of reading here! :D I know it was all worth it every time I look into their eyes. I'm glad you discovered a bit of info you didn't know from my posts. That's how I learned the bit I know about bearded dragons, just reading post after post. I never fail to learn something still! Glad you enjoyed the captions, I had fun with them.
Amanda :D
 
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