Talon, Moya, Dargo and Zhaan

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Hello,
I have a long story to share and not sure where to post it so if I'm in the wrong section please forgive me. Also, there will be pics coming soon!
So, here is our story, a story of 2 sick Beardies. This site has been a God Sent! Anything I did right I learned from here! Some of you may have read about our cl rescues. I posted it in Beardie rescue but don't know how to provide the link. In August my husband and I rescued the 2 sweetest Beardies you could ever know! We named them Talon, {male} and Moya, {female}. They were pretty sick when we got them on the 3rd of August. We took them to a vet, {that mis-sexed our male,} on the 4th of August, They were medicated with 3 different meds, for pin worms, Coccidia and another thing that I can't remember. They took the full course of meds over the month as the vet ordered. The follow up fecal on September 3rd was neg, all "cleared up" per the first vet I took them to.
Thru that month both had appetite issues from being sick and no doubt related to the meds. Talon more than Moya. So, I fed Talon chicken, turkey, squash and applesauce baby food with calcium {and vits added once during that week}. by syringe 3 times a day for a week since he would eat nothing, not one morsel. Moya was eating a bit but also had a very poor appetite so I syringe fed her several times when I didn't believe she had eaten enough. They both were so under weight when we got them. I also gave them both soy yogurt daily since one of the meds was an antibiotic. Slowly he began to eat again, hurray! and her appetite improved. I had always noticed some clicking and popping sounds coming from Moya, and upon listening, also heard it from Talon and in my inexperienced stupidity, I thought it was the sounds they normally made. {Oh, please forgive me my beautiful sick little babies!} Then on Sept. 22 while feeding Talon a small super worm I saw him go to pick one up and clear tan-ish liquid poured from his mouth. It was phlegm. It scared the living daylights out of me! The next day Sept. 23, we took them on an emergency visit to a new vet who was advertised as an experienced exotic/reptile Vet. I hadn't been impressed with the first one. OMG, what a difference! Dr. Keller actually gave them a real physical, going over them both with a fine toothed comb! Unlike the first vet I took them to who held them, pushed on their heads and handed them back, and had a tech check a fecal. Dr Keller checked and moved all of their joints, arms, hands and fingers and legs, feet and toes, and checked their tails too! He checked inside their mouth and looked in their ear holes with a light, he listened to their abdomens and lungs with....are you ready....a stethoscope! He checked their vents. He checked their belly's for constipation and impaction. I told him how we rescued them off of cl and the condition they were in, that they had been seen by another Vet the day after we got them and was medicated for their issues at that time, and had a neg. follow up fecal. I must say that our sweet little babies were excellent at the doctors and tolerated it all without complaint. We hold them several times everyday, play time, snuggle time, treat time, and "don't need a reason to" cuddle time so they both are very comfortable with being handled. Dr. Keller asked all the right questions I would expect a knowledgeable Vet to ask.....enclosure size?......did they have separate enclosures?...... UVB lighting, heat and humidity?....substrate?....diet with greens and live feeders dusted with calcium daily and vits once a week?.....exercise?...... And I told him they get a bath everyday at 9:30 am, and always poo in the bath, and get rinsed in running water of course....lol.....hurray, always clean, spotless enclosure!
OMG! I just can't say enough good about this Doc. As a side note both he and his Vet partner wife had their own Beardies when they were growing up.
Well, both of our beautiful babies had respiratory infections, and probably had had the RI before we got them since I was hearing that clicking in August and the guy that had them before had put them in a damp basement. They both got an injection of Baytril and a script of oral Baytril for 7 days then a recheck on October 3rd. When we went back for the recheck, they still had a few crackles in their lungs so he extended the meds for another week with a recheck in 2 weeks on the Oct.24th. Dr. asked about their bowels due to the antibiotics. I told him I was giving them soy yogurt daily and it was working, no loose or watery stool. I told Dr. Keller Talon was eating very well but Moya was eating nothing at all, that I was syringe feeding her 3 times a day so she wouldn't loose the weight she had gained. He said the Baytril can be very harsh on their GI tract and some Beardies loose their appetite, to continue what I was doing and be sure to offer her feeders and salads daily even though she wasn't eating right now.
We went back for the check up on the 24th. Talon and Moya were both still sick and started to have few fine popping and crackling sounds again. Neither was eating on their own. I had brought a fecal to see if it had anything to do with their poor appetites. They both had tons of pin worms again, and that Coccidia. Dr Keller treated them for it with the meds Albon, Panacur, and continued another 5 days of Baytril. Dr Keller believed their immune systems had been kicked hard by their early non-care and neglect but with all the good and proper care and nutrition they were getting at home now he believed once we could get it all cleared up they would be fine. He doesn't believe at this point it is chronic. So on Nov 7th went back to the vet for check ups. Lungs clear....hurray!.... and fecal neg.....hurray! Talon is eating very well, to well...lol...my fault. He now weighs 540 gms, up from the 120 gm in august, and he is now 17 1/4 inches, but has lost part of his tail, he's my Chubster. Moya weighs 410 gms, up from the 144 gms she weighed in August when we got them, and she is now 16 3/4 inches and also has lost some tail, she is my Little Miss.
Only issue now is Moya's appetite. She still isn't eating anything....nothing! So Dr. Keller checked her all over again and said he felt the bump/lump that tells him she is constipated even though she was passing a tiny amount of stool everyday, I had thought it was tiny because I was feeding her the baby food. So he instructed not to feed her on Tues to see if she could get hungry and stimulate her to eat, warm baths 4 times a day for 20 minutes with very gentle tummy rubs and do it for 48 hours. She had a strange episode in the bath one eve, her 4th bath of the day, she got all dark, almost black all over her whole body and her eyes closed and she started to put her head down, I grabbed her out of the tub, she was limp for about 10 seconds though it seemed like forever, then she perked right back up, put her happy colors on and you'd never know what just happened, What the heck was that? And yes, I'm asking the Vet when we go back Monday. His plan if the warm baths didn't work go to plan B, go back to feeding her baby food like I had been and feed her some baby food applesauce with some olive oil added to it, at least 2 cc's of it and continue the warm baths 4 times a day So I did all that. No BM, so next day I tried one more thing, I gave her about 3 cc's of warm baby prunes, warm baths and tummy rubs. Well, that did it. She cleaned out, so happy she wasn't impacted. But she still is not eating yet. At the last visit Dr. Keller said there is an appetite stimulant he could give her if needed. Well, Monday I'm on my way back to the Vet for her lack of appetite and to see about that stimulant and to ask about that episode she had in the tub, Thank God that hasn't happened again!
Just a note. I am not independently wealthy! The Vet, Dr. Keller, has been so good to us. His office visit for exotics $50 each. He only charged us $50 for the office call for seeing both of them on that first visit and only charged me meds for one but gave me enough for both of them. On all the other visits he has only charged me $25 for the office call, that is seeing and treating both of them. He has only ever charged me meds for one but always given me meds for both of them. He only charged me for 1 fecal though he did both. He's our hero!
So, that is our story. 5 Vet visits in 3 months, and another on Monday. It's been a long 3 months, lots of medications and lots of time and love and finally they are near healthy.
When they crawl up my blouse to my shoulder, wiggling and settling in to snuggle into my neck, when they look up at me and speak with those beautiful eyes, when they always show their happy colors whenever I pick them up, when they don't want to return to their enclosure and hug onto my arm, when they come to the front of their enclosure and sit down patiently waiting for me to pick them up, when they step into my hand to be picked up, when they get a shot at the doctors and run across the exam table and up the front of me to hide under my chin, when they lay sleeping so beautiful and peaceful on my chest, when I look over at my snoozing husbands and one of them is curled up in his neck snoozing too, when they look right at me when I call their name, these and a million other reasons are why I'm in love with them! My husband and I are both retired and we can think of nothing we would rather be doing than being caretakers to these wonderful, sweet, beautiful creatures. We are so very happy we found them, and we are humbled to be able to share their life with them!
I hope you enjoyed our story and it continues.............


I
 

beardie parents

BD.org Sicko
My guess is there has to be something wrong with her that the vets haven't been able to diagnosis yet. I really hope she'll be o.k. That's the problem with taking in rescues, sometimes you get lucky, as we did with Goldie, and sometimes you spend a lot of money trying to figure out what's wrong.
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Thank you everyone for all your good wishes and thoughts for our Miss Moya.
We went to the Vet today, I left her at the hospital for the afternoon, {wow
that was harder than I thought it would be} and her blood was drawn, x-rays
done and she was given a B vit. injection and generally observed. When I
picked her up this afternoon Dr. showed me her x-rays, flat and side views.
Her bone density is great, no problem there. No visible problems with her
GI tract, no impaction noted. However, a large portion of her right lung
is almost not visible in the x-ray. He believes it may be a consolidation
due to the long RI, possibly pneumonia but doesn't want to say one way or the
other til her blood work comes back on Monday so he can see what her
white blood cell count is before he creates a treatment plan for her. I
asked him if that could be causing the symptoms she has and he said
"most definitely". So, it's going to be a long weekend waiting for the blood
results but I'm encouraged and it's probably bad to say but I hope it is pneumonia
because it can be treated! It would be wonderful to get her back to health.
So for the weekend I continue to "baby" my baby. She hasn't eaten another
roach nymph yet but it is encouraging that she ate one this morning.
Thank you everyone for thinking of her!
 

izz

Juvie Member
I hope she gets better!! I just read through all of it and i know if you hadn't got them they would have died.


I hope she pulls through :) . Sparks sends his best beardie wishes :D .
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Well, this started about as 2 Beardies so as Moya and I wait the weekend
for her blood test results this will be about Talon. He also was so sick when we got
him but after taking the same meds as Moya thru the illnesses, at first he had
problems with his appetite but soon began to feel and act better so hoping
he is completely better. He has a birth defect. He has quite the under-bite....
or maybe it's an over-bite, not sure but anyways, his bottom jaw protrudes out
past his upper lip. I put drops of water on his lips frequently thru out the day to keep
the bottom from drying out. He is so adorable! He loves free time running around our
2 "dragon proof" rooms. He is a lover...lol....it almost seems that he kisses when he's
up on a shoulder. I swear he gently bumps his snout into my neck or on my cheek or gently
rubs my cheek then gets around to the back of my neck and settles down half curled
holding on to my hair. I promise it's not because of a shed because he does it almost every
time. Well, whatever it is it's just wonderful...lol. He seems to like to snuggle into my
husband Kim's neck and have a nap and of course the human man slave snoozes with him.
He loves to chase after his worms, we toss a few of them one at a time spaced about a yard
apart {so he gets some exercise}, then after a time when we stop tossing them for him he
comes over by us and sits like they do and just looks up at us saying "hey, come on, more wurmz" :mrgreen:
I'm hoping to get pics of both Talon and Moya up here soon.
Bye for now
 

zooeymama

Hatchling Member
I've enjoyed reading your posts! I can't wait to see some pics of the cuties in question.

I wonder if Moya is trying to brumate? I didn't recall reading her age but that was the first thing that came to mind. I hope all is well! <3
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Just a quick up-date. We are still waiting for Moya's blood test results. I called the Vet and he hadn't received the results yet .....probably because of the holiday? He was going to call them today so I'm hoping to hear tomorrow. I'm so worried about the shadow that shows up on xray on her right lung She still isn't eating on her own so I continue to feed her baby food with calcium twice a day with a syringe. She had eaten a roach the morning of her last vet visit but nothing since. I've been feeding her for over a month. Also have to take Talon back to the Vet as he's starting to pop and crackle again so I think he has a RI again, or maybe the first one didn't go completely away. I've raised his tank temp to 103-104 and keeping it in the 80's at night til tomorrow when I can get him back to the vet. Both of their homes are set up following this sites advice. Reptisun 10.0 tube. Humidity in the 20's to 30's. They get good food, greens {I follow beautifuldragon"s food list} and live food, dusted with calcium. Vits once a week, calcium and D3 once a week. They get a daily bath for hydration. I'm trying to do everything right so I don't know why they are not getting better. I'm so worried about their immune system! I know they heal slowly but wishing they would get and stay healthy. I'm just worried! Maybe I'll know something tomorrow.
 

beardie parents

BD.org Sicko
I understand your worry, especially with Moya. It's scary that she won't eat anything but baby food. That keeps them going for awhile but she needs feeders, crickets and such. I'm glad Talon is doing better and I hope his uri goes completely away. I'm thankful that I've never had to deal with a beardie with a uri.
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Thank you so much, sometimes it good just to know someone understands and "get's it".
I know they had a rough start to life with their other "owner" not taking care of them {the a**}
And I know that they heal slowly so I'm hoping that is all it is....but I'm so very worried for them,
for Talon, his persistent reoccurring RI and for Moya, the xray shadow on her right lung and the
not eating and her persistent reoccurring RI. I'm so impatient for the blood results! You are so
right about the baby food, it's good in a pinch thru an illness but not meant to be their whole
nutrition. The need for a proper diet with live food for her is also a worry. I'll update as soon as
I know anything!
Amanda
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
UPDATE: ....zooeymama wins the prize...lol...she wondered if Moya might be trying to brumate! And thank you everyone for you caring and good wishes to my little ones, Moya and Talon.

The Vet called me tonight after hours. Moya's comprehensive reptile panel blood test results were ....drum roll please....text book perfect! :blob5: Her white blood cell count was perfect too :blob8: so no infectious process is going on right now. I don't have the number results on paper but I'll ask him for a copy when I go in tomorrow.
He believes the shadow on her right lung may be related to an old respiratory infection not a pneumonia. He wants to xray her in a month and compare films. Then he again wanted me to go over her behavior. I told him she was acting "sick"....not moving around as usual, listless and lethargic. For the past about a week when she woke in the mornings she would go in her hide and lay her head down like she was sick or tired. I have been putting her in her basking spot for a while in the mornings and after I had syringe fed her. I told him she darkens up all over her body, not just her beard, for no apparent reason and then just as quickly lightens back up. { I was thinking some sort of stress or pain } And of course my biggest concern for her was no appetite. She would not eat anything for over a month since she was on Baytril for the respiratory infection in early October. Dr. had even put her on an appetite stimulant for a week that didn't really work. I've been syringe feeding her twice a day since the respiratory infection in mid October. I told him that the Baytril for her the respiratory infection from the mid October to early November seemed to have cleared it up but that her lethargy and no appetite after the antibiotic and the Panacur and Albon had us concerned. So he said since her xray showed no problems with any of her other systems {aside from the pale shadow on her right lung which he believes is left over from an old RI} and her blood test results are perfect and she's been treated for the respiratory infection, the coccidia and the worms and that since she is somewhere around a year old, she may be trying to brumate even as she recovered from the illness! :shock: OMG, I hope that's it and not the horrible illnesses that were lurking in the back of my mind!
I have to take her to the Vets tomorrow for a check up and weight... then not syringe feed her for a week but still offer feeders, provide greens and let her determine where she wants to be in her house even if it's in her hide all day. Then in a week I have to take her back again for another weight check. He said when they brumate they go long periods of time without eating but don't have a great weight loss since their metabolism slows. I so hope that's it! He said he'll have some info for me on brumation .
Tomomrrow Dr. Keller's letting me pick up another round of antibiotic for Talon since the he has another RI, mouth open even on the cool side of his house, poppin and cracklin' like Rice Krispies and mucus at the sides of his mouth. :banghead: poor guy! Talon is next for the xray and blood work after the holidays, if this round of antibiotics work and if he stays healthy enough to wait til then.
Oh, to have them be healthy and happy, that's my hearts desire!
Well, I have to read more about brumation :study: :book: but I need HELP from all of you brumation experts out there. I'm a newbe and find reading is a good resource but the greatest advice comes from experience.
What do I do next if this is brumation? :dontknow: Please help! Advice?... how to support them, how do you know when to wake, feed, bathe them?..what do you feed them? ...how long does it last... where do they sleep, in their hide or in the open to get UVB....I'm such a newb :roll:
Thanks everyone!
Oh, and I just adopted 2 sweet little beardies from HowlinGaleDragons rescue. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=159417 Number 5 and 8. They are shown on page 15! Can't wait!
And I promise pics of Moya and Talon, and of our 2 new little ones too!
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Hi all, just a update on my little ones.
Moya got up this morning from her bed. {We hold our beardies to fall asleep when their lights go out then I put them in padded beds I made for them and cover or wrap them in fleece blankets.} She got up and went into her hide, stretched out on her acrylic sheep skin, back legs in sexy leg position, front arms pointed backwards and drowsed there all morning. Then about 12:30 or so I heard scratching and some moving about. I checked her and she had burrowed under her sheep skin and was already crashed and slept like that til I woke her to go to the Vets at 5pm. She weighed 406 grams. When we got home she went right back into her hide on her sheep skin. I covered her with her pink fleece blanket and she went fast asleep. So I guess she has gone into brumation and doesn't have a nasty illness lurking around :blob5: :D :blob8: Weight check next week to make sure she's not losing a lot and help confirm it.
I pick up another round of Baytril for Talon's re-occurant respiratory infection. I hope this time it stays gone! :banghead: I've increased his basking spot to 104 and his cool side to 85 to 90 for the duration of the antibiotic and added a double dose of cuddling since he doesn't feel so good. He snuggles into my neck and has a nap. Today I noticed his left arm and hand are slightly swollen but is also that dusty gray-ish and ready to shed. He's not favoring it when he walks so I don't think it is an injury but I'm watching it closely!

I'm don't know how to change the name of this thread to "A story of 4 beardies " as we have adopted 2 from HowlinGaleDragon. A male and a female. They are pictured on page 15 of her rescue thread. # 5 and # 8. # 5 has been named Zhaan, {rhymes with Ann}, and # 8 has been named Dargo. We can't wait to meet them!
One more thing, I'm borrowing my nephews digital camera to post some pics of Moya, Talon, Zhaan and Dargo, still waiting on my other pic and will post them when I get them.
Bye for now,
Amanda
 

spikerocks

Juvie Member
Amanda, what a story! I am so glad these beardies found you! I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we would luv to see pics of Talon and Moya! :)

You are lucky for sure with your vet cutting you a break. Our office visits just went up to $75 and with 6 dragons, this adds up quickly. :roll: He's a good vet tho and I trust him so what can you do?

I know what a long and overwhelming road it can be trying to bet your beardies healthy and my heart goes out to you. You are doing an amazing job! When are your new beardies arriving?

Also, just a tip I wanted to share: when my beardies are not feeling their best and they want to hang out with me, I put a hand or foot warmer inside a sock and then let them sit on top of it while on my shoulder or leg. It's important to keep them warm when dealing with infections or what not. I try to keep my dragons temps around 90 at night and then use the warmers so they can still hang with me. I usually have the warmers here anyway becuz we lose power quite a bit. I just ordered a case of hand warmers on Amazon for $16 with shipping, pretty good deal.

Anyway, good luck to you and your clan!
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Hi All,
Here are some pics of Talon.
A few days after rescue Aug. 3rd, after major clean up bathes, old shed removal,
hydration and some good food. He weighed only 120 gms. and was 12 1/2" long.
He possibly has a birth defect, underbite, {but I read somewhere it could be MBD
from his poor care previously. If it is MBD, he has no other signs and of course he
gets calcium daily now!}
100_2532.jpg

And here's our big boy today, 520 gms. and 17 1/4"
101_2619.jpg

love his tummy, he's my Chubster!
101_2639.jpg

My favorite pic of him!
101_2646.jpg

....is this my best side?....
101_2622.jpg

....or this?.....
101_2620.jpg


Here are some pics of Moya.
A few days after rescue Aug. 3rd also. Same treatment and she weighed 144gms and
was 13 1/4" long
100_2531.jpg

And a quick peek at her today. last week she weighed 406 gms and was 16 3/4" long.
She's in brumation but I took a few pics anyways.
Our Little Miss was not amused!...lol.
101_2645.jpg

Are you serious?....I'm trying to sleep here!
moyapinksleep.jpg

Really??
101_2634.jpg

check out her hand.....live long and prosper...lol..." now cover me back
up so I can go back to sleep."
101_2650.jpg


So there some pics of our beautiful babies :love5: . I hope It wasn't to many!
My 2 new ones from HowlinGaleDragon recent rescues are due to arrive Wed. or Thur.
depending on Nicoles work schedule. I hope to have pics of them up soon.
Amanda
 

dragonlover3

Sub-Adult Member
Original Poster
Thanks Spikerocks! Yup, it's been a long road to health and still working on it, and yes,
sometimes it's overwhelming! I feel so bad for them and they are the sweetest beardies!
They were such a mess and so neglected when we got them, not as bad as some on here
are though. Thank you so much for the advice on the warmers, I appreciate it! I always
welcome advice! Anything I can do better I want to know! I have a corn bag, it's like a
rice bag, it's a good sized, one they can stretch out on. I just throw it in the microwave
for 3 minutes and they have good warm heat for 45 minutes or so. Actually Talon is laying
on it on it in the pics with the orange fleece blanket, the blanket is just thrown over it!
And that is a fantastic idea about the hand warmers! My husband and I bought an entire box
of them last month when they hit the shelves at Walmart....lol...I also went to the medical
supply store here and purchased 2 old fashioned type hot water bottles to have on hand too.
We are campers and have a cook stove that runs on propane, we can heat water anytime so
we thought that would be a good back up plan too. We need one, especially living in the
Northeast, {NY}. Thanks for reading about my little ones, I know it's long winded but a lot was
happening!....lol. I posted in Beardie Rescues when we rescued them. It tells about the condition
we got them in. It's long winded too...lol.
Thanks again for the advice, I'll take all I can get.
Bye for now!
Amanda
 
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Mirage came out of brumation on April 26. He was doing great. On May 2 he started acting funny. We just redid his tank, and he keeps going into one of his hides. He just lays there. He shows no intrest in food. HELP!

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