Supplement HELP!

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CooperDragon

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I think that the advice you've been given is sound, but there may be a lot of gray area here and more than one good answer. I think the key is to provide a balanced diet to ensure they receive the vitamins and minerals they need. With the farm raised bugs, they may need supplements to make up for lack of nutrients they would provide in the wild. This is why we dust them. Going with plain calcium is a good, safe route. Plain calcium being the calcium carbonate. The Vetark brand has a good reputation but is not as readily available as others in the US (it is UK based I believe). There are a lot of good brands though and it is less important with something like plain calcium so check the ingredients.

Building on the base calcium supplement (which in a lot of cases will be enough on its own, especially if your dragon is eating salads which can be nutrient rich) you can add mulivitamins and D3. This is where it can get a bit open ended. If you want to add a multivitamin (probably more important if they aren't eating veges) you can swap that in a couple of times per week (roughly) instead of the calcium, as others have suggested. Using a reputable brand is probably more important here. I've had good luck with Repashy products. Not the only good option, but many people have used this brand with success (healthy dragons for a long time).

D3 supplementation becomes more important if you are using UVB lighting that isn't comparable to natural sunlight in terms of strength. This is typically applicable to older bulbs such as T8 or bulbs that are not at an appropriate height for their output. This is best checked with a Solarmeter, but we can use close approximations based on previous test results and what people have found via Solarmeter readings with various bulbs over time. The thinking here is that if a dragon gets strong enough UVB and heat, they can synthesize D3 on their own, so supplementation is not really needed. Too much D3 can be problematic, but I think that would require pretty frequent use at high doses. There are supplements that have low D3 amounts built in - often these are the all in one supplements. The lower dose makes them (in theory) better for more routine use. Repashy makes calcium supplements with no D or low D options, as well as an all in one option that includes some vitamins so you can use that in combination with plain calcium or in conjunction with it.

I just wanted to review some of the current thinking and try to explain why there is so much varying information on this topic. You've gotten good advice in this thread and I think that if you come up with a routine that works for you in terms of product availability and based on some of the guidelines provided here, you shouldn't need to worry about it too much.
 

Jupitertheking

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
I think that the advice you've been given is sound, but there may be a lot of gray area here and more than one good answer. I think the key is to provide a balanced diet to ensure they receive the vitamins and minerals they need. With the farm raised bugs, they may need supplements to make up for lack of nutrients they would provide in the wild. This is why we dust them. Going with plain calcium is a good, safe route. Plain calcium being the calcium carbonate. The Vetark brand has a good reputation but is not as readily available as others in the US (it is UK based I believe). There are a lot of good brands though and it is less important with something like plain calcium so check the ingredients.

Building on the base calcium supplement (which in a lot of cases will be enough on its own, especially if your dragon is eating salads which can be nutrient rich) you can add mulivitamins and D3. This is where it can get a bit open ended. If you want to add a multivitamin (probably more important if they aren't eating veges) you can swap that in a couple of times per week (roughly) instead of the calcium, as others have suggested. Using a reputable brand is probably more important here. I've had good luck with Repashy products. Not the only good option, but many people have used this brand with success (healthy dragons for a long time).

D3 supplementation becomes more important if you are using UVB lighting that isn't comparable to natural sunlight in terms of strength. This is typically applicable to older bulbs such as T8 or bulbs that are not at an appropriate height for their output. This is best checked with a Solarmeter, but we can use close approximations based on previous test results and what people have found via Solarmeter readings with various bulbs over time. The thinking here is that if a dragon gets strong enough UVB and heat, they can synthesize D3 on their own, so supplementation is not really needed. Too much D3 can be problematic, but I think that would require pretty frequent use at high doses. There are supplements that have low D3 amounts built in - often these are the all in one supplements. The lower dose makes them (in theory) better for more routine use. Repashy makes calcium supplements with no D or low D options, as well as an all in one option that includes some vitamins so you can use that in combination with plain calcium or in conjunction with it.

I just wanted to review some of the current thinking and try to explain why there is so much varying information on this topic. You've gotten good advice in this thread and I think that if you come up with a routine that works for you in terms of product availability and based on some of the guidelines provided here, you shouldn't need to worry about it too much.
Thanks! But so I have a all in one and should I use that yea 1 day of the week and then vitamin 3 days and calcuim 3 days
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
Reptile one it’s one of the best brands
If its made in China its not very good - the only brand that I know of that is a half decent and then I wouldnt use it is the Reptisun 26 watt-- then it needs to be unobstructed 6-8 inches directly above the basking decor -- and replaced every 6 months I would go a month prior to
The 26w version of the UVB150 is similar in output to a T8 tube when using a reflector. The beam isn't as wide (depending on the length of the tube) but the output strength is very similar. If it was sitting about 6-8'' above the main basking area then it was likely providing adequate UVB. It's the lower wattage (13w) versions that cause concern since they aren't strong enough to provide adequate UVB at a safe distance.
Your dragon will not be able to absorb or synthesize the calcium hes ingesting w/ out proper UVB and what is recommended on this site is the link that I sent to you -- he may not show signs of MVB for a year or so some show signs right away -- but a lot of dragons will hide their illness till they can no longer - sometimes its too late sometimes you can prevent it from getting worse but it can never be reversed -- just saying
 

Jupitertheking

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
O
If its made in China its not very good - the only brand that I know of that is a half decent and then I wouldnt use it is the Reptisun 26 watt-- then it needs to be unobstructed 6-8 inches directly above the basking decor -- and replaced every 6 months I would go a month prior to
The 26w version of the UVB150 is similar in output to a T8 tube when using a reflector. The beam isn't as wide (depending on the length of the tube) but the output strength is very similar. If it was sitting about 6-8'' above the main basking area then it was likely providing adequate UVB. It's the lower wattage (13w) versions that cause concern since they aren't strong enough to provide adequate UVB at a safe distance.
Your dragon will not be able to absorb or synthesize the calcium hes ingesting w/ out proper UVB and what is recommended on this site is the link that I sent to you -- he may not show signs of MVB for a year or so some show signs right away -- but a lot of dragons will hide their illness till they can no longer - sometimes its too late sometimes you can prevent it from getting worse but it can never be reversed -- just saying
k thanks! But I have checked it with my vet and with pet shops and reptile centre and said that it is fine where I live (Australia) but there are some from other places which are not good!
 

Badwolfe

Hatchling Member
w/ out proper UVB and what is recommended on this site is the link that I sent to you -- he may not show signs of MVB for a year or so some show signs right away
You might wanna change your abbreviation to MBD - I don't think his dragon is in danger of showing signs of turning into a mercury vapour bulb anytime soon :)
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
If you have an all in one supplement, you can use that to dust every meal. Just a light even coat will do, you don't need much. I've found that putting the bugs in a small cup and adding a little supplement and shaking gently helps to distribute the supplement evenly over them. You could also do half and half if you have both. Alternate dusting with the all in one and plain calcium if you want to go on the conservative side a bit. I think either way should work and be safe though.
 
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