Seisures
- Thread starter caleb3654
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Hello,
Have you removed the sand yet from his tank? He is likely impacted from it.
Since you are using a compact/coil light for UVB the exposure of UVB is very poor. You
will need to change that out to a long tube type bulb. You can get either the Reptisun
10 or the Arcadia D3 12% for him. It will need to be mounted underneath of the screen
top for best exposure, within 6-8 of him.
The basking temperatures of 115 are too high. Try to keep it in a range of 95-110 with
a cooler area/side of 78-82. What are you using to measure the temperatures?
How often are you supplementing calcium?
The twitching is being caused by neurological problems most likely related to calcium.
He wont be able to absorb his calcium or other crucial vitamins without the proper UVB
exposure.
Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
Have you removed the sand yet from his tank? He is likely impacted from it.
Since you are using a compact/coil light for UVB the exposure of UVB is very poor. You
will need to change that out to a long tube type bulb. You can get either the Reptisun
10 or the Arcadia D3 12% for him. It will need to be mounted underneath of the screen
top for best exposure, within 6-8 of him.
The basking temperatures of 115 are too high. Try to keep it in a range of 95-110 with
a cooler area/side of 78-82. What are you using to measure the temperatures?
How often are you supplementing calcium?
The twitching is being caused by neurological problems most likely related to calcium.
He wont be able to absorb his calcium or other crucial vitamins without the proper UVB
exposure.
Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
I remember your last post, we all wrote a comprehensive write-up discussing how your UVB lighting was inappropriate, temps, diet, sand substrate, etc...What changes have you made to his lighting, temps, diet, substrate, etc.? Can you update us?
If you have not changed out his UVB light to an adequate one and have not made any of the other changes we suggested, he most likely has the start of Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD), which is caused by a Calcium deficiency that is due to the inadequate UVB/UVA light, as we discussed prior. Also, as Tracie pointed out, if you haven't removed the Calcium sand he is most likely also impacted, as that stuff is lethal as we told you.
We are more than happy to help you, but can you please update us on the changes you've made to his lighting, correcting his temperature zones/the type of thermometer you're using, the substrate, his diet, etc. so we know what still needs to be changed? He is only going to continue to get worse and worse if you haven't made the corrections we mentioned to you prior, and at his age he is going to stop growing and become stunted and possibly have permanent disabilities.
If you have not changed out his UVB light to an adequate one and have not made any of the other changes we suggested, he most likely has the start of Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD), which is caused by a Calcium deficiency that is due to the inadequate UVB/UVA light, as we discussed prior. Also, as Tracie pointed out, if you haven't removed the Calcium sand he is most likely also impacted, as that stuff is lethal as we told you.
We are more than happy to help you, but can you please update us on the changes you've made to his lighting, correcting his temperature zones/the type of thermometer you're using, the substrate, his diet, etc. so we know what still needs to be changed? He is only going to continue to get worse and worse if you haven't made the corrections we mentioned to you prior, and at his age he is going to stop growing and become stunted and possibly have permanent disabilities.
Here is the reply I wrote to you in your prior post, which I'm just copying and pasting in, as all of this is still going to apply and be the cause of his seizures/tremors, twitching, and any other issues he is having:
ou've got some serious husbandry issues that are causing your baby to be lethargic and not eat. Can you please post some photos of both your baby and then the entire enclosure and your lights?
I hate to tell you this because I know you've already spent money, but most all of the Bearded Dragon "Kits" that you buy from pet shops come with completely inadequate UVB lights, and this is the number one reason that new baby dragons stop eating and become lethargic within the first few months of coming to their new homes. I'm sure that the "kit" you bought came with either a "Compact" or a "Coil" UVB bulb, and neither of these are even close to adequate for a Bearded Dragon. Most all "Compact" UVB bulbs are only 13 watts at the most, which is half the wattage of a UVB light a Bearded Dragon needs in order to manufacture any of it's own Vitamin D3, which means he is not absorbing or processing/using any of the nutrition (calories, fat, carbs, protein, etc.) or the vitamins/minerals that he is eating in either his food or any that you're dusting his live insects with. This is why he is both lethargic and not eating. There is only one "Compact" UVB bulb that I'm aware of that is adequate for a Bearded Dragon, and that is an Exo Terra 200 Compact UVB bulb, which is 26 watts...so you can see how weak the one you have is compared to what he needs. And there is NO "Coil" UVB bulb that is adequate for a Bearded Dragon, as they are just as weak as the Compact UVB bulbs, but they all also emit very harmful light rays that cause serious eye damage, skin damage, and blindness. So if the UVB bulb that you have is a "Coil" UVB bulb you're best to shut it off completely, as it's doing him no good and also causing him harm. If the UVB bulb you have is a regular, "Compact" UVB bulb, it is not providing him with nearly enough UVB light, and if your tank has a mesh lid on top and the Compact UVB bulb is shining through the mesh lid, he is getting absolutely NO UVB light at all, as the mesh lid is blocking 40% of the already too weak UVB light.
What you need to buy for him ASAP is a long either 18" or 24" UVB tube and a matching length tube light fixture that has a metal reflector built in behind where the UVB tube fits. There are a few different brands that sell long UVB tubes, but please do not go to PetSmart and buy any lights that are made by their house brand All Living Things, or made by the brand ReptileOne. They are both the same UVB tubes made in China, they emit inadequate UVB light, and they also emit harmful light rays that cause eye damage. The UVB tubes that all experienced Bearded Dragon Owners and Breeders use are either the Reptisun 10.0 T8 or T5HO UVB tubes, or the Arcadia 12% or 14% T5 UVB tubes. Those are pretty much your options for a UVB light that is going to help your baby. The long UVB tube and matching length fixture is the most important thing you need to replace IMMEDIATELY because without this he is not going to get better, only worse, become stunted in size, develop Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD), and possibly die.
PLEASE DUMP THE REPTISAND/CALCIUMSAND OUT OF HIS TANK IMMEDIATELY!!!!! THEN DISINFECT THE ENTIRE TANK AND PUT DOWN PAPER TOWELS OR NEWSPAPERS FOR THE TIME BEING THAT CAN BE THROWN AWAY AND REPLACED AS THEY BECOME SOILED!!!! YOU CAN LOOK FOR A PERMANENT SOLID SUBSTRATE LATER, LIKE NICE TEXTURED TILES, NON-ADHESIVE SHELF LINER, REPTILE CARPET, ETC., BUT FOR RIGHT NOW PLEASE GET THAT CALCIUM SAND OUT OF HIS TANK, IT IS LETHAL TO BABY DRAGONS!!! Bearded dragons should not be placed on ANY loose substrate, especially small, young babies, as their natural environment is the Australian Desert, which is a hard, rocky terrain and not the "sandy" desert you think of when you think of a desert. That being said, dragons lick everything, it's a way they feel, and all types of Calcium Sand/Reptisand (they are the same thing) are made to smell and taste good so they purposely eat it. Even if you feed him in a separate tank he is still eating sand, it's just how it is...CALCIUM SAND TURNS INTO CEMENT ROCKS WHEN IT GETS WET, GO AHEAD AND TRY IT. SO WHEN IT GETS INTO THE STOMACH/INTESTINES OF A BABY DRAGON IT CAUSES LIFE-THREATENING IMPACTIONS AND BOWEL OBSTRUCTIONS. He may already be suffering from an impaction due to just a few grains of that sand, and combine that with you feeding him mealworms he is in grave danger of developing a bowel obstruction. THE OTHER ISSUE WITH BOTH CALCIUM SAND AND CRUSHED WALNUT SHELL SUBSTRATES, BARK, MULCH, RODENT BEDDING, WOOD CHIPS, ETC. IS THAT IT HARBORS AND BREEDS BACTERIA, FUNGI, (YELLOW FUNGUS), AND PARASITES, AND CAUSES ALL KINDS OF SKIN INFECTIONS, UPPER RESPIRATORY INFECTIONS, AND GASTROINTESTINAL INFECTIONS IN BEARDED DRAGONS. So please, I can not tell you how many bearded dragons we see every single day on her that have serious impactions, bowel obstructions, and infections due to both Calcium Sand and Crushed Walnut Shell substrates, and the bearded dragons who usually die as a result of these substrates being inside their enclosures are young, small babies!!! Please, please, dump that lethal garbage out of his tank right this minute, disinfect his tank with very hot water and bleach to kill the microbes it will leave behind, dry it well, and then put down clean, dry paper towels for him. This is not any more optional than buying him a proper UVB tube is.
110 DEGREES IS THE MAXIMUM TEMPERATURE THAT HE SHOULD HAVE ANYWHERE INSIDE HIS ENCLOSURE!!! 115 DEGREES AND ABOVE IS THE LETHAL RANGE, AND IS ALSO CONTRIBUTING TO HIS LACK OF APPETITE AND LETHARGY!!! Those "kits" come with stick-on thermometers, which are complete junk, and when tested they are off by between 10-20 degrees. Not only that, but YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO WAY OF MEASURING HIS BASKING SPOT SURFACE TEMPERATURE WITH A STICK-ON THERMOMETER!!!!! So that 115 degrees is not his Basking Spot Temperature, it is the Hot Side Ambient (Air) Temperature...so if you're getting 115 degrees as the Hot Side Ambient Temperature, which is in the lethal range, that means the temperature on his actual Basking Spot is higher than the surrounding ambient (air) temperature!!!!!!! Either your tank is too small for the basking bulb wattage you're using, or the basking bulb is far too close to the tank. Either way, YOU NEED TO GO TO PETCO AND SPEND $10 ON A DIGITAL THERMOMETER THAT HAS A PROBE ON A WIRE. The other accurate thermometer option is a temperature gun. Either one will work, but you need to get one of them immediately, as if his temperatures are not within the correct ranges then he can not digest his food, he could die of heat stroke and dehydration, and he has no Cool Side to go to in order to cool down...If that stick-on thermometer is saying that his Hot Side Ambient Temperature is 115 degrees, assuming that your stick-on thermometer is off as much as they all are, that could actually be 125-135 degrees!!!!! This will kill him.
How big a tank/enclosure is he in? You need a large enough tank to establish a Temperature Gradient across it. A minimum size of tank for even a baby beardie is a 20 gallon long, and that will only be large enough for him until he is 5-6 months old, then the minimum size of tank is a 40 gallon breeder tank, and an minimum size enclosure for an adult bearded dragon is 4'x2'x2'...For now, I hope you have at least a 20 gallon long tank so that you can get his temperature zones within the correct temperatures, but you need to go get a digital thermometer with a probe in order to get an accurate reading.
BASKING SPOT SURFACE TEMPERATURE: between 105-110 degrees maximum. 110 degree maximum temperature anywhere inside the tank.
HOT SIDE AMBIENT TEMPERATURE: between 88-93 degrees maximum
COOL SIDE AMBIENT TEMPERATURE: between 75-80 degrees maximum
Also, mealworms are not an insect that should be fed to bearded dragons as a staple feeder insect, and small, young baby beardies really should not have them at all. They cannot digest the hard, chitlin shells that mealworms have, and the rest of them is nothing but fat, which over time can result in fatty liver disease. But the main issue with feeding baby or juvenile bearded dragons mealworms is that they are constantly causing them impactions and bowel obstruction that often result in paralysis of their back legs, because the mass that the undigested shells form inside their intestines pushes on their spinal columns, which if left to apply pressure for too long causes paralysis. From the time they hatch until they are a year old, bearded dragons need a ton of healthy, live staple feeder insects. Most babies and juveniles under a year old will not eat many if any greens or veggies, though you need to be offering him a salad of healthy greens every single day, and if he eats them consider it a bonus rather than a real part of his diet. Your dragon will not grow if he is not fed healthy, staple feeder insects, like crickets, dubia roaches, Phoenix Worms/BSFL, or Silkworms. Wax worms, hornworms, and butterworms should only be occasional treats, a few each week at most. Mealworms should be avoided for babies and juveniles.
So it's quite possible that he also has an impaction due to all the mealworms, the inadequate UVB bulb, and the Calcium Sand. Also, his temperatures are way too hot and could be causing him severe stress, dehydration, and could ultimately kill him if you don't get a proper digital probe thermometer or a temperature gun and get his temps within the correct ranges.
"
ou've got some serious husbandry issues that are causing your baby to be lethargic and not eat. Can you please post some photos of both your baby and then the entire enclosure and your lights?
I hate to tell you this because I know you've already spent money, but most all of the Bearded Dragon "Kits" that you buy from pet shops come with completely inadequate UVB lights, and this is the number one reason that new baby dragons stop eating and become lethargic within the first few months of coming to their new homes. I'm sure that the "kit" you bought came with either a "Compact" or a "Coil" UVB bulb, and neither of these are even close to adequate for a Bearded Dragon. Most all "Compact" UVB bulbs are only 13 watts at the most, which is half the wattage of a UVB light a Bearded Dragon needs in order to manufacture any of it's own Vitamin D3, which means he is not absorbing or processing/using any of the nutrition (calories, fat, carbs, protein, etc.) or the vitamins/minerals that he is eating in either his food or any that you're dusting his live insects with. This is why he is both lethargic and not eating. There is only one "Compact" UVB bulb that I'm aware of that is adequate for a Bearded Dragon, and that is an Exo Terra 200 Compact UVB bulb, which is 26 watts...so you can see how weak the one you have is compared to what he needs. And there is NO "Coil" UVB bulb that is adequate for a Bearded Dragon, as they are just as weak as the Compact UVB bulbs, but they all also emit very harmful light rays that cause serious eye damage, skin damage, and blindness. So if the UVB bulb that you have is a "Coil" UVB bulb you're best to shut it off completely, as it's doing him no good and also causing him harm. If the UVB bulb you have is a regular, "Compact" UVB bulb, it is not providing him with nearly enough UVB light, and if your tank has a mesh lid on top and the Compact UVB bulb is shining through the mesh lid, he is getting absolutely NO UVB light at all, as the mesh lid is blocking 40% of the already too weak UVB light.
What you need to buy for him ASAP is a long either 18" or 24" UVB tube and a matching length tube light fixture that has a metal reflector built in behind where the UVB tube fits. There are a few different brands that sell long UVB tubes, but please do not go to PetSmart and buy any lights that are made by their house brand All Living Things, or made by the brand ReptileOne. They are both the same UVB tubes made in China, they emit inadequate UVB light, and they also emit harmful light rays that cause eye damage. The UVB tubes that all experienced Bearded Dragon Owners and Breeders use are either the Reptisun 10.0 T8 or T5HO UVB tubes, or the Arcadia 12% or 14% T5 UVB tubes. Those are pretty much your options for a UVB light that is going to help your baby. The long UVB tube and matching length fixture is the most important thing you need to replace IMMEDIATELY because without this he is not going to get better, only worse, become stunted in size, develop Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD), and possibly die.
PLEASE DUMP THE REPTISAND/CALCIUMSAND OUT OF HIS TANK IMMEDIATELY!!!!! THEN DISINFECT THE ENTIRE TANK AND PUT DOWN PAPER TOWELS OR NEWSPAPERS FOR THE TIME BEING THAT CAN BE THROWN AWAY AND REPLACED AS THEY BECOME SOILED!!!! YOU CAN LOOK FOR A PERMANENT SOLID SUBSTRATE LATER, LIKE NICE TEXTURED TILES, NON-ADHESIVE SHELF LINER, REPTILE CARPET, ETC., BUT FOR RIGHT NOW PLEASE GET THAT CALCIUM SAND OUT OF HIS TANK, IT IS LETHAL TO BABY DRAGONS!!! Bearded dragons should not be placed on ANY loose substrate, especially small, young babies, as their natural environment is the Australian Desert, which is a hard, rocky terrain and not the "sandy" desert you think of when you think of a desert. That being said, dragons lick everything, it's a way they feel, and all types of Calcium Sand/Reptisand (they are the same thing) are made to smell and taste good so they purposely eat it. Even if you feed him in a separate tank he is still eating sand, it's just how it is...CALCIUM SAND TURNS INTO CEMENT ROCKS WHEN IT GETS WET, GO AHEAD AND TRY IT. SO WHEN IT GETS INTO THE STOMACH/INTESTINES OF A BABY DRAGON IT CAUSES LIFE-THREATENING IMPACTIONS AND BOWEL OBSTRUCTIONS. He may already be suffering from an impaction due to just a few grains of that sand, and combine that with you feeding him mealworms he is in grave danger of developing a bowel obstruction. THE OTHER ISSUE WITH BOTH CALCIUM SAND AND CRUSHED WALNUT SHELL SUBSTRATES, BARK, MULCH, RODENT BEDDING, WOOD CHIPS, ETC. IS THAT IT HARBORS AND BREEDS BACTERIA, FUNGI, (YELLOW FUNGUS), AND PARASITES, AND CAUSES ALL KINDS OF SKIN INFECTIONS, UPPER RESPIRATORY INFECTIONS, AND GASTROINTESTINAL INFECTIONS IN BEARDED DRAGONS. So please, I can not tell you how many bearded dragons we see every single day on her that have serious impactions, bowel obstructions, and infections due to both Calcium Sand and Crushed Walnut Shell substrates, and the bearded dragons who usually die as a result of these substrates being inside their enclosures are young, small babies!!! Please, please, dump that lethal garbage out of his tank right this minute, disinfect his tank with very hot water and bleach to kill the microbes it will leave behind, dry it well, and then put down clean, dry paper towels for him. This is not any more optional than buying him a proper UVB tube is.
110 DEGREES IS THE MAXIMUM TEMPERATURE THAT HE SHOULD HAVE ANYWHERE INSIDE HIS ENCLOSURE!!! 115 DEGREES AND ABOVE IS THE LETHAL RANGE, AND IS ALSO CONTRIBUTING TO HIS LACK OF APPETITE AND LETHARGY!!! Those "kits" come with stick-on thermometers, which are complete junk, and when tested they are off by between 10-20 degrees. Not only that, but YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO WAY OF MEASURING HIS BASKING SPOT SURFACE TEMPERATURE WITH A STICK-ON THERMOMETER!!!!! So that 115 degrees is not his Basking Spot Temperature, it is the Hot Side Ambient (Air) Temperature...so if you're getting 115 degrees as the Hot Side Ambient Temperature, which is in the lethal range, that means the temperature on his actual Basking Spot is higher than the surrounding ambient (air) temperature!!!!!!! Either your tank is too small for the basking bulb wattage you're using, or the basking bulb is far too close to the tank. Either way, YOU NEED TO GO TO PETCO AND SPEND $10 ON A DIGITAL THERMOMETER THAT HAS A PROBE ON A WIRE. The other accurate thermometer option is a temperature gun. Either one will work, but you need to get one of them immediately, as if his temperatures are not within the correct ranges then he can not digest his food, he could die of heat stroke and dehydration, and he has no Cool Side to go to in order to cool down...If that stick-on thermometer is saying that his Hot Side Ambient Temperature is 115 degrees, assuming that your stick-on thermometer is off as much as they all are, that could actually be 125-135 degrees!!!!! This will kill him.
How big a tank/enclosure is he in? You need a large enough tank to establish a Temperature Gradient across it. A minimum size of tank for even a baby beardie is a 20 gallon long, and that will only be large enough for him until he is 5-6 months old, then the minimum size of tank is a 40 gallon breeder tank, and an minimum size enclosure for an adult bearded dragon is 4'x2'x2'...For now, I hope you have at least a 20 gallon long tank so that you can get his temperature zones within the correct temperatures, but you need to go get a digital thermometer with a probe in order to get an accurate reading.
BASKING SPOT SURFACE TEMPERATURE: between 105-110 degrees maximum. 110 degree maximum temperature anywhere inside the tank.
HOT SIDE AMBIENT TEMPERATURE: between 88-93 degrees maximum
COOL SIDE AMBIENT TEMPERATURE: between 75-80 degrees maximum
Also, mealworms are not an insect that should be fed to bearded dragons as a staple feeder insect, and small, young baby beardies really should not have them at all. They cannot digest the hard, chitlin shells that mealworms have, and the rest of them is nothing but fat, which over time can result in fatty liver disease. But the main issue with feeding baby or juvenile bearded dragons mealworms is that they are constantly causing them impactions and bowel obstruction that often result in paralysis of their back legs, because the mass that the undigested shells form inside their intestines pushes on their spinal columns, which if left to apply pressure for too long causes paralysis. From the time they hatch until they are a year old, bearded dragons need a ton of healthy, live staple feeder insects. Most babies and juveniles under a year old will not eat many if any greens or veggies, though you need to be offering him a salad of healthy greens every single day, and if he eats them consider it a bonus rather than a real part of his diet. Your dragon will not grow if he is not fed healthy, staple feeder insects, like crickets, dubia roaches, Phoenix Worms/BSFL, or Silkworms. Wax worms, hornworms, and butterworms should only be occasional treats, a few each week at most. Mealworms should be avoided for babies and juveniles.
So it's quite possible that he also has an impaction due to all the mealworms, the inadequate UVB bulb, and the Calcium Sand. Also, his temperatures are way too hot and could be causing him severe stress, dehydration, and could ultimately kill him if you don't get a proper digital probe thermometer or a temperature gun and get his temps within the correct ranges.
"
caleb3654":eq40fhvc said:
Well that's good to hear! Be sure to do it at least 5 times a week, and I don't know if you know this or not either, but he also needs a Reptile Multivitamin powder dusted on his live bugs at least 3 times a week as well, or he can develop a Vitamin deficiency that can cause the same symptoms that the calcium deficiency started.
Please feel free to ask any questions that you might have about anything, that's why we're here, and unfortunately it seems that a lot of pet shop employees aren't getting any education or training and are giving some pretty horrible advice...
I'm not trying to sound like a smart-ass here, but we told you in your first post and then again in this post that your UVB light was totally inadequate and that was the problem. Without adequate, strong UVB and UVA light for at least 13-14 hours a day, they can't absorb any of the calcium that you give them, they just excrete it. That's why we have been telling you this for months and months...I wish you had listened to us sooner...
What UVB light did you end up buying? And how do you have it mounted, on top of the mesh lid or strapped to the underside of the mesh lid so that the light is not obstructed by anything? And how far away is the UVB light from your dragon's basking spot? I'm asking this because even if you bought a T8 strength UVB tube (a long tube that is at least 18" long in a tube fixture) it cannot sit on top of a mesh tank lid because they are too weak to do so. So this is very, very important to make sure of, because he will not get any better if it's not mounted correctly.
Please let us know EXACTLY which light you bought...
What UVB light did you end up buying? And how do you have it mounted, on top of the mesh lid or strapped to the underside of the mesh lid so that the light is not obstructed by anything? And how far away is the UVB light from your dragon's basking spot? I'm asking this because even if you bought a T8 strength UVB tube (a long tube that is at least 18" long in a tube fixture) it cannot sit on top of a mesh tank lid because they are too weak to do so. So this is very, very important to make sure of, because he will not get any better if it's not mounted correctly.
Please let us know EXACTLY which light you bought...
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