feeding mice

[Ratlovinkippy211]

Do you really need to feed mice to an adult beardie.. I would feed frozen if i have to but i couldnt do live. I grew up with pet mice and rats.

 

[Claudiusx]

NO!!!

You do NOT need to find mice.

In fact, many here recommend against doing so! It is dangerous to feed mice to a dragon, and unnecessary.

Insects and salad is what your dragons diet should consist of.

-Brandon

 

[dangit12]

yes mice is not neccessary listen to brandon hes a expert.

 

[Paradon]

LLLReptiles feeds it to their bearded. You don't have to if your bearded is already chunky. I do it for variety sake. You don't have to feed as many of these like when you feed insects because they are far more nutritious and have more calories than feeder insects. I feed a couple of these and then they get the salad for the rest of the week.

 

[Claudiusx]

You don't HAVE to even if your dragon is skinny.You don't HAVE to feed mice/pinkies/fuzzies under any circumstance.

-Brandon

 

[diamc]

I totally agree with Brandon. I also wanted to mention that this link that most of us refer to, states that pinky mice are very high in fat and that feeding them is "questionable", it is in yellow print on this site that proves that it is not recommended or a good idea. http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

 

[Beardednoob]

I want to chime in here, it is not necessary to feed pinkies to bearded dragons. There isn't anything in a pinky your dragon cannot get from other sources, better sources.

 

[MissT]

There really is absolutely NO reason to feed any size of mouse to your dragon. They are mostly fat so, feeding them based on 'nutrition' is really not a valid reason. There are plenty of other, much more nutritious and safer feeders for your dragon

So no, Ratlovinkippy, there is no reason why you would have to feed your dragon mice!

 

[ChiefsDaddy]

I agree with all the above. One more thing that hasn't been mentioned.... A bearded dragon's system is made to process insect protein. They cannot process mammal protein as well. Unprocessed protein goes through the liver and over time can lead to fatty liver disease. It really isn't something you'd want to feed a dragon.

 

[Paradon]

Protein is protein whether you get it from mice, anoles, snails or wales. Animal protein once it has been broken down into a more readily useable form is called purine and plant protein is called paradine (sp). Other than making your animals fat, there is really no differnces in the protein from insects and mammals. You can do search for it online. It really isn't anything new. A lot of herpers and reputable vets like Susan Donoghue and Dr. Madder say you can feed small, immature mice to these guys for a long time. It really isn't anything new.

 

[Beardednoob]

http://www.reptileboards.com/threads/article-on-feeding-rodents.17438/

Just some reading material.

 

[Paradon]

here is a good link written by Dr. Douglas Madder about the myths of fatty liver disease: http://www.anapsid.org/heplipidosis.html

 

[Claudiusx]

Protein is protein whether you get it from mice, anoles, snails or wales. Animal protein once it has been broken down into a more readily useable form is called purine and plant protein is called paradine (sp). Other than making your animals fat, there is really no differnces in the protein from insects and mammals. You can do search for it online. It really isn't anything new. A lot of herpers and reputable vets like Susan Donoghue and Dr. Madder say you can feed small, immature mice to these guys for a long time. It really isn't anything new.

I have already been over this with you in another thread. Not all protein is the same.

So are you saying if I gave my dragon some whey protein, that the dragon would handle it just as well as if I gave the dragon soy protein?
Dragons cannot digest dairy products, and whey protein is a dairy product. Clearly that shows that not all protein is the same?

If you still dont believe me, you can google it to find the different make ups of different proteins. And not all protein gets broken down the same.

Another example with Whey. It is used up by the body fast, however Casein is a protein that stays in the body and releases itself into the body over a much longer time.

Both are proteins, but both are completely different.

-Brandon

 

[Claudiusx]

Feed your dragons whatever you want, but don't make false claims.

-Brandon

 

[Claudiusx]

4/ Herbivores and insectivores (like our dragons) do not have digestive systems built to handle a large amount of calories from fat. Once digested, fat is either passed, or it's stored. Once stored, it can only be burnt off during what I can best describe as "starvation periods". Some degree of exercise will help but, as I said above, it's nowhere near comparable to a human or mammal.
This means that once a certain level of fat is consumed over time, the body becomes 'overloaded' as it were, with no means to burn off the fat if the reptile is still being fed. Even if you cut the diet back to healthy greens and low-fat insects, because enough food is being consumed so that the dragon does not need to use its fat reserves, the damage from all that fat remains and grows over time.

Mammals are warm bloods (or endotherms) and therefore have a built in ability to burn fat, unlike cold blooded reptiles (ectotherms).

If dragons are fed just on high-fat foods like pinkies the damage has been done. It doesn't matter if it takes months to years for the symptoms to become evident as they are still caused by too much fat due to the nature of the disease. As explained above, dragons, as cold-blooded creatures, are not continually burning their fat stores for energy. Usually fat is only heavily utilised during periods of famine, lack of appetite due to health issues or gravidity, or brumation. This means that, even after being placed onto a healthy, low-fat diet, some dragons will still be dealing with the damage caused by overeating high fat prey items.
With reptiles, their chance of improvement after being fed high fat foods is rather low and the recovery is slow. Many people have lost seemingly healthy rescue pets all of a sudden, only to have a necropsy performed to discover that it was fatty liver disease that indirectly killed them, even after years of a healthy, low-fat diet.

A few of the key points in the article Michael posted.

-Brandon