Coccidia /Albon not working

[hill202]

Unless you have professional training , it is folly for a lay person (you) to try a diagnosis based on very limited information and without proper training or even proper diagnosis equipment (medical microscope, dyes, test kits.

The risk is that you misdiagnosed and are giving inappropriate meds and are making any parasitic infection worse.

I'm not sure I agree with all that. I attempted it, someone on here advised to see a VET and I did.The Vet's findings were the same as mine.

Maybe it was "lay man's" luck.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Unless you have professional training , it is folly for a lay person (you) to try a diagnosis based on very limited information and without proper training or even proper diagnosis equipment (medical microscope, dyes, test kits.

The risk is that you misdiagnosed and are giving inappropriate meds and are making any parasitic infection worse.

I'm not sure I agree with all that. I attempted it, someone on here advised to see a VET and I did.The Vet's findings were the same as mine.

Maybe it was "lay man's" luck.

or maybe he simply told you what you wanted to hear and never really bothered investigate. Easy money for him .... not much help to your sick bearded dragon .

I wouldn't be very impressed with that vet ....

 

[hill202]

I don't mean to come off as a know it all. I realize that I'm not qualified to diagnose sick lizards. I'm just desperate to see her get well. She looks real bad today. Coccidia is still wall to wall on the slide.

 

[kingofnobbys]

I really think you need to find a more experienced / better qualified / better trained reptile/herp vet, there is no reason why she can't be made healthy if you act quickly enough , a good vet will be very thorough and will know the best medicines to use.
I wouldn't tell him what you think it is , let him make an independent diagnosis.

 

[hill202]

That's probably good advice. I was really hoping this round of Albon would do it. She has only had 2 of the 7 prescribed doses so maybe its too soon to see improvement.

 

[kingofnobbys]

That's probably good advice. I was really hoping this round of Albon would do it. She has only had 2 of the 7 prescribed doses so maybe its too soon to see improvement.

Bad idea to not take a full course of antibiotics , this is what produces superbugs / antibiotic resistant infections , UNLESS TOLD TO STOP by the doctor/vet..

But - the antibiotics are not doing anything to kill the coccidia parasites in your beardie's gut , so you also need medications to tackle and kill them.
And you need to sterilize the viv thoroughly regularly while the beardie is still infected else he will simply be reinfected on contact with infected / contaminated furnishing etc.

 

[hill202]

I'm not stopping the meds. She was prescribed a daily dose for 7 days and we are 3 doses into that now.

 

[hill202]

The breeder has agreed to refund the purchase price. I believe she truly feels bad about it. She made a mistake and she has made an effort to correct it.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Sorry to cut in after 3 pages! I hate to hear your dragon has had so much trouble.
What is the strength of the Albon solution she is getting, as well as the dose?
He prescribed it for 7 days, is that correct?
Since she started doing worse after she started the Albon again, I would recommend getting her
started on a probiotic to help her tummy. Albon is sulfa based which is hard on the kidneys &
on the entire body. Try getting non dairy acidophiliz or non dairy organic soy yogurt flavored
or plain to give to her daily.
Are you getting extra oral fluids into her too?

Tracie

 

[hill202]

Hello,

Sorry to cut in after 3 pages! I hate to hear your dragon has had so much trouble.
What is the strength of the Albon solution she is getting, as well as the dose?
He prescribed it for 7 days, is that correct?
Since she started doing worse after she started the Albon again, I would recommend getting her
started on a probiotic to help her tummy. Albon is sulfa based which is hard on the kidneys &
on the entire body. Try getting non dairy acidophiliz or non dairy organic soy yogurt flavored
or plain to give to her daily.
Are you getting extra oral fluids into her too?

Tracie

The bottle says 50mg/ml.
4 units(.04 ml) daily for a week. She has had 3 doses so far.

We have been giving her Acidophiliz also. We are going try the yogurt today. Keeping her hydrated has not been a problem.We give daily baths that she seems to enjoy and she drinks when she is in it. We are also giving her pediliyte.

I do a fecal test daily. The amount of coccidia that I see has not changed. It's a lot. I'm not sure how they count it. I wish I could get a pic of it but this microscope can't take pics.

She had blood in her feces this morning again. We have not been seeing that for a few days.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Your vet needs to prescribe a suitable anti-parasitic drug , here are some recommended by Melissa Kampling

 

[hill202]

Your vet needs to prescribe a suitable anti-parasitic drug , here are some recommended by Melissa Kampling

The antibiotic will have no effect on the coccidia parasites , it will help with the secondary infection caused by these parasites' activities in the beardie's gut.

Sulfadimethoxine is Albon. Sigh, you had me scrambling for a minute.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Your vet needs to prescribe a suitable anti-parasitic drug , here are some recommended by Melissa Kampling

The antibiotic will have no effect on the coccidia parasites , it will help with the secondary infection caused by these parasites' activities in the beardie's gut.

Sulfadimethoxine is Albon. Sigh, you had me scrambling for a minute.

Yes, but the other isn't .

Results of a quick scientific literature search :

The modes of action of anticoccidial drugs are poorly understood. Some that are better known are described below. Knowledge of mode of action is important in understanding toxicity and adverse effects.

Amprolium is an antagonist of thiamine (vitamin B1). Rapidly dividing coccidia have a high requirement for thiamine. Amprolium has a safety margin of ~8:1 when used at the highest recommended level in feed (125–250 ppm). Because amprolium has poor activity against some Eimeria spp, its spectrum has been extended by using it in mixtures with the folic acid antagonists ethopabate and sulfaquinoxaline. The primary use of amprolium today is for oral treatment dissolved in water during clinical outbreaks.

Clopidol and quinolines (eg, decoquinate, methylbenzoquate) are coccidiostatic against early development of Eimeria spp by inhibiting mitochondrial energy production. Clopidol and quinolines have a broad species spectrum and are sometimes mixed together for synergism. However, resistance may develop rapidly during extended use.

Folic acid antagonists include the sulfonamides, 2,4-diaminopyrimidines, and ethopabate. These compounds are structural antagonists of folic acid or of para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA), which is a precursor of folic acid. (The host does not synthesize folic acid and has no requirement for PABA.) Coccidia rapidly synthesize nucleic acids, accounting for activity of PABA antagonists. Although resistance to antifolate compounds is widespread, they are commonly used for water treatment when clinical signs are already evident. Diaveridine, ormetoprim, and pyrimethamine are active against the protozoan enzyme dihydrofolate reductase. They have synergistic activity with sulfonamides and often are used in mixtures with these compounds.

Halofuginone hydrobromide is related to the antimalarial drug febrifuginone and is effective against asexual stages of most species of Eimeria. It has both coccidiostatic and coccidiocidal effects, but coccidia may become resistant after extended exposure.

The ionophores (monensin, salinomycin, lasalocid, narasin, maduramicin, and semduramicin) form complexes with various ions, principally sodium, potassium, and calcium, and transport these into and through biologic membranes. The ionophores affect both extra- and intracellular stages of the parasite, especially during the early, asexual stages of parasite development. Drug tolerance was slow to emerge in coccidia, probably because of the biochemically nonspecific way these fermentation products act on the parasite. Recent surveys suggest that drug tolerance is now widespread, but these products remain the most important class of anticoccidials.

Some ionophores may depress feed consumption when the dosage is above recommended levels. Primarily, this is the result of reduced feed consumption, but the reduced growth may be offset by improved feed conversion.

Nicarbazin was the first product to have truly broad-spectrum activity and has been in common use since 1955. Although not completely understood, the mode of action is thought to be via inhibition of succinate-linked nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide reduction and the energy-dependent transhydrogenase, and the accumulation of calcium in the presence of ATP.

Nitrobenzamides (eg, dinitolmide) exert their greatest coccidiostatic activity against the asexual stages. Efficacy is limited to E tenella and E necatrix unless combined with other products.

Robenidine, a guanidine compound, allows initial intracellular development of coccidia but prevents formation of mature schizonts.
It is coccidiostatic when given short term and coccidiocidal long term. Drug resistance may develop during use.

Roxarsone is an organic arsenical compound. It has significant activity against E tenella and is used in combination with ionophores to improve control of that species. A withdrawal period is required.

Diclazuril and toltrazuril are highly effective against a broad spectrum of coccidia.
>>Diclazuril is used mostly for prevention at 1 ppm in the food.
>>Toltrazuril is used primarily for treatment given orally in water.

Your reptile / herp vet will be up to date and will know which combination of anti-coccidial meds are going to be effective for the stain of coccidia parasite infecting your dragon. At this point I moving beyond my biochemistry knowledge and I strongly suggest you seek professional vet advise.
I'll be bowing out.

 

[hill202]

I keep seeing posts where people have used Baycox. I can only find one place online with it.

http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=246

Their shipping policies look to be slow. It would probably take a week to get to me. Where is Amazon when you need it...

When I asked the Vet about Baycox and she looked like a deer in headlights.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Your vet will have some in stock in his pharmacy (cabinet) or will direct you a pharmacist (drug store) with a script if these are regarded as controlled drugs.

I think you need to stop trying to do the treatment on the cheap as it's worked so well for your pet dragon so far , grasping at straws without a proper diagnosis is not wise. You are likely doing more harm than good at this point.