Coccidia /Albon not working

[AHBD]

Yeah, I'm surprised...Atomic has a good reputation but you never know.

 

[EllenD]

I haven't personally used that breeder, but from general reviews I'm seeing online nothing has stood out as bad. Seems more people recommend Atomic.
An inch of growth in 2 months isn't terrible, but she's still small for her age. She may have known she was not going to sell well so tried to push her off

That was exactly what I was trying to say without saying it. I've never heard anything bad about them either, but then again I never looked up reviews. I don't think he told us her length at 5 months when Atomic shipped her, but there's no way that they didn't realize something was wrong with her if she weighed only 50 grams at 5 months old, her total length couldn't have been even close to average to be at that weight, unless she was emaciated looking. Either way something is extremely suspect here....It's just disappointing when any breeder knowingly does this to someone who is excited about getting a new family pet, let alone a large, respected breeder.

 

[hill202]

The vet visit went ok, I guess. She was unable to do a fecal as we had no feces. We are going to drop some off tomorrow.

The Vet said she did not look under weight...she weighed 46 grams. She gave her a B12 shot and a calcium shot. She said the B12 would stimulate her appetite. She prescribed Flagyl to use as an appetite stimulant. She did all of this without a fecal...sigh. When I questioned her about the Flagyl and she said it could wait.

She said not to force feed her so we could tell when she started eating on her own.

She said you could see coccidia in a healthy dragon's poop. That was one of the questions that I had for Ellen.

I asked what the next step was if the B12 did not help the appetite. She said I would need to take her to a Specialist............at Auburn University.

Last but not least, she also said that I have been reading a lot of misinformation on the internet.

I could not make this up if I tried.

 

[hill202]

I haven't personally used that breeder, but from general reviews I'm seeing online nothing has stood out as bad. Seems more people recommend Atomic.
An inch of growth in 2 months isn't terrible, but she's still small for her age. She may have known she was not going to sell well so tried to push her off

That was exactly what I was trying to say without saying it. I've never heard anything bad about them either, but then again I never looked up reviews. I don't think he told us her length at 5 months when Atomic shipped her, but there's no way that they didn't realize something was wrong with her if she weighed only 50 grams at 5 months old, her total length couldn't have been even close to average to be at that weight, unless she was emaciated looking. Either way something is extremely suspect here....It's just disappointing when any breeder knowingly does this to someone who is excited about getting a new family pet, let alone a large, respected breeder.

She was 9.5 inches when we received her. She is 10.5 now.

 

[traildrifterphalanx]

Your vet visit sounds like when I had my two seen by an exotics vet a few months back. She administered doses of panacur to them both with no fecal and sent me home with more. She also recommended I use sphagnum moss as a substrate and switch to a mercury vapor bulb instead of my arcadia uvb bulbs.
Needless to say I switched vets.

Perhaps underweight is the wrong phrasing. I would consider her more undersized as she is a pretty good weight for her size of 10.5", but for 6 months old she's about the size of a 3 month old. There's nothing wrong with being a little dragon as long as she is healthy, that's what matters. Maybe she'll even surprise us all by growing to a giant size.
What bothers me though is her being from a reputable breeder. Just something wrong about pawning off an undersized dragon as though it's normal. Seems dishonest

 

[hill202]

Your vet visit sounds like when I had my two seen by an exotics vet a few months back. She administered doses of panacur to them both with no fecal and sent me home with more. She also recommended I use sphagnum moss as a substrate and switch to a mercury vapor bulb instead of my arcadia uvb bulbs.
Needless to say I switched vets.

Perhaps underweight is the wrong phrasing. I would consider her more undersized as she is a pretty good weight for her size of 10.5", but for 6 months old she's about the size of a 3 month old. There's nothing wrong with being a little dragon as long as she is healthy, that's what matters. Maybe she'll even surprise us all by growing to a giant size.
What bothers me though is her being from a reputable breeder. Just something wrong about pawning off an undersized dragon as though it's normal. Seems dishonest

My Vet also said the Albon may have been rendered ineffective because I kept it in the fridge, as per the instructions.

 

[AHBD]

Aw, too bad....I was afraid that it wouldn't be an experienced reptile vet. Coccidia is not seen in the feces , never heard that before.

For now just keep offering hydration by an eyedropper or syringe on her snout, you can try a bit of baby food sweet potato also mixed with water. You can also try this to see if she'll eat....smash a cricket [ or other insect you were feeding her ] until the guts come out a bit. I know it sounds gross....then rub it lightly on her snout It may not work the first time [ she will be stressed from the vet visit ] but at some point it can usually spark the appetite.

 

[hill202]

She looks real bad this morning. She can barely hold her head up. She did poop so we will be able to get that to the vet first thing today.

This is brutal to watch. She has been sick for so long now, I am afraid she won't be able to revover.

 

[AHBD]

Oh boy, that's so sad. Can you take the fecal in but leave the baby home ? Some dragons are stressed more easily than others and she had 2 painful shots in her tiny body yesterday , [ I would not have given any shots , orally would have probably been better].

And later in the day offer the hydration or baby food or a small smashed bug like I mentioned very gently + patiently.

 

[hill202]

Yes, the shots were not necessary. They called and said the fecal showed an extremely high level of coccidia. She is going back on the Albon. I asked if they had a med that was less harsh and she said Albon is all she prescribes.

The vet is convinced that refrigerating the Albon made it in-effective. Beautifuldragons.com sends instructions stating to refrigerate Albon.

In an attempt to make lemonade out of lemons, I guess this is kind of good news. The vet seems to think that we can get it under control and I don't have to drive to Auburn University.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

 

[AHBD]

Have you thought about another vet if you can find one ? Or ordering the Ponazuril from beautifudragons ?

And it's true that Albon is to be kept at room temp.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiLvsC-g7nVAhVG9IMKHciwCy8QFggoMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.drugs.com%2Fvet%2Falbon-oral-suspension-5.html&usg=AFQjCNEsAsxBEhIAOt_UGJBoqbnXL2t8_w

 

[hill202]

Have you thought about another vet if you can find one ? Or ordering the Ponazuril from beautifudragons ?

And it's true that Albon is to be kept at room temp.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiLvsC-g7nVAhVG9IMKHciwCy8QFggoMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.drugs.com%2Fvet%2Falbon-oral-suspension-5.html&usg=AFQjCNEsAsxBEhIAOt_UGJBoqbnXL2t8_w

Thanks for the link.

This is the Albon from beautifuldragons. It may have been cut with a product that requires refridgeration.

 

[hill202]

This is the Albon from the Vet. I'm not sure if the pics show the difference but they look alot different, if that matters.

 

[hill202]

Bump, link sent to breeder.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Unless you have professional training , it is folly for a lay person (you) to try a diagnosis based on very limited information and without proper training or even proper diagnosis equipment (medical microscope, dyes, test kits.

The risk is that you misdiagnosed and are giving inappropriate meds and are making any parasitic infection worse.

I question the efficacy of using an antibiotic ONLY to treat / eliminate a parasitic infection .

From the manufacturer's website

ALBON (sulfadimethoxine) is effective for treating a wide range of bacterial infections commonly encountered in dogs and cats. It is indicated for use in dogs and cats with respiratory, genitourinary tract and soft-tissue infections. It is also indicated for treating dogs with bacterial enteritis associated with coccidiosis.

so it is doing nothing to kill off the coccidiosis parasitic infection what so ever. You need another drug to deal with that , and a reptile will have an entirely different response to Albon which is meant for cats and dogs.

Regarding storage of the drug between uses from their Prescribing Information Sheet https://www.zoetisus.com/products/cats/albon.aspx

STORAGE: Store at controlled room temperature 15°–30°C (59°–86°F).

No mention of deactivation happening if chilled.

Regarding coccidiosis :

There are six species of Eimeria (coccidiosis) which are generally considered to be significant : E. tenella, E. brunetti, E. necatrix, E. maxima, E. mitis and E. acervulina. Each of these species prefers to live in and damage a specific region of the gut. For the purposes of treatment and prevention of coccidiosis it is unimportant to ascertain which species is causing disease

, do you have the knowledge and skill to identify the strain of coccidiosis your dragon is infected by ?


Treatment of coccidiosis generally involves three components.

1.Kill the coccidiosis to stop further gut damage, this requires an anticoccidial medication. Which one are you using ?

There are two kinds of drugs:
coccidiostats which slow the development of the coccidiosis. This allows the animal to develop immunity to coccidiosis without being overwhelmed. - you are well past this point.
second kind are coccidiocides, one such medication would be Toltrazuril 2.5% w/v (Baycox) which will kill the coccidiosis. - your dragon needs this.

2.control the bacterial disruption to the gut, this is treated by antibiotic therapy. (this is presumeably the job of Albon or other antibiotics (as mentioned by Ellen).)

3.TLC, providing a warm dry environment and following any medication advice. It is advisable at this stage to follow on with provision of multivitamins and a probiotic to restore gut flora with a product such as Beryl’s Friendly Bacteria.

So you need to find a competent vet who knows his stuff and need to take a three pronged strategy :
1) anticoccidial medication
2) antibiotic to treat secondary gut infection
3) regular F10sc sterilization of the dragon's viv and all it's furnature (I'd recommend F10sc used at 1:125 dilution to be sure of killing all coccidial spores.

and unless you do this , your dragon will never be cured.