Beardie feeding question

[Love4animals]

I was wondering if I could give my Beardie tiger a pinky once a month when he's bigger. Do you think it would be ok? :?: :notworthy:

 

[Chirple]

Why do you want to ?

I read a great article about this subject, and I just would not. While an adult can eat them safely, that is just way too much fat in their diet that they don't need and can lead to fatty liver disease. The fat builds up in their bodies - they won't work it off over the course of the month - so you're just going to be adding fat and fat and fat.

I would only consider feeding them if there was a reason they needed Super Extra Fat, like a gravid female.

 

[Paradon]

Usually, the animals that die, they did not die from fatty liver disease. They actually die from improper husbandry and set-up. Here is a good article for you to read: http://www.anapsid.org/heplipidosis.html I feed my bearded the occasional fuzzies and they are not fat. I feed them so they can get variety in their diet and the benefit of a whole prey. the key is not to overdo it and lots of salad afterwards. :wink: A snake only need to eat once a week if fed the appropriate whole prey...anymore than that a snake can become obese, too.

 

[Paradon]

Being cold blooded isn't cold at all. Did you know chucwallas and Uromastyx can raise their body temperature so hot that it would kill most mammals instantly?

 

[Love4animals]

Ok, thanks for the info guys I only asked if I could because I wanted to feed him a variety, but if you say it's bad then I will DEFINATELY NOT feed him pinkys btw I am 14 and have lots of reptiles and have lots of expirience with them. I love reptiles and have been fascinated with them for my whole life I also DO NOT keep any of my desert reptiles on sand. I am planning on being a herpetologist when I grow up

 

[Chirple]

While it's not a cause of death, that article still says that fatty mice are being "misfed" and can be a cause of the problems that lead to it. :/

As well, the Savannah Monitor is not a Bearded Dragon and they have functionally different digestive systems. Savannah Monitors are fully carnivores, Bearded Dragons are not.

http://www.reptileboards.com/threads/article-on-feeding-rodents.17438/

The inland bearded dragon, by contrast, is most definitely an omnivore (or insectivore, as their primary protein needs come from insects). However, in the wild dragons eat a wealth of plant matter, so that it makes up 60-90% of their overall diet. Considering this, and looking at a dragon’s digestive system, one can safely assume that the inland bearded dragon’s digestive tract has evolved to be most similar to an obligate herbivore’s than to a carnivore’s.
Due to a dragon’s high insect intake, particularly during youth when the protein is needed to support their incredible growth, it can be assumed that they have evolved to metabolise protein more effectively than obligate herbivores. The fact, however, that they eat primarily insects means that they have clear restrictions on just how much fat from protein they can process on a regular basis, as their body simply has not evolved to be used to such high loads, unlike a carnivore who has a body and metabolism specially adapted for processing high fat protein sources, such as rodents, rabbits, and other small mammals.

If a wild dragon eats a pinkie or fuzzy, it will therefore probably be weeks, even months, until it gets the chance to find and eat one again. Even if it ingests a number of pinkies in one feeding, it still is unlikely to do damage to itself because it will then go a very long time before eating mammalian protein once more.
By going through this long period between feedings of such high fat sources it ensures that the fat will be utilised. In captivity, our dragons live much more sedentary lives. Reliably they are fed and we ensure that they get exactly what they need to be healthy. Under these regular feeding conditions, feeding pinkies and/or fuzzies every few weeks, maybe even months, increases the risk of overfeeding fat purely because your dragon will have little to no chance of burning that fat off, unless it is gravid reliably or regularly goes into brumation.

Usually fat is only heavily utilised during periods of famine, lack of appetite due to health issues or gravidity, or brumation. This means that, even after being placed onto a healthy, low-fat diet, some dragons will still be dealing with the damage caused by overeating high fat prey items.
With reptiles, their chance of improvement after being fed high fat foods is rather low and the recovery is slow. Many people have lost seemingly healthy rescue pets all of a sudden, only to have a necropsy performed to discover that it was fatty liver disease that indirectly killed them, even after years of a healthy, low-fat diet.

Now, I don't think we're necessarily on different sides :

Similarly, I’d personally recommend feeding mammalian protein sparingly, maybe once every few months or even a year, unless your dragon regularly brumates, or becomes weak during laying.

I think that's fine - if they're fed only every few months / yearly / in times of need such as before brumation or egg laying - which probably isn't too far off from what you're saying.

 

[cjsdragons]

all out i see it as a bad idea i think hornworms are a cool thing to feed once a month they look awesome

 

[Love4animals]

Ok, thanks for the info bro, just don't start a fight with the guy disagreeing lol :lol:

 

[Love4animals]

I kinda disagree on the horn worms because of the horn at the end, but I guess if you cut the horn off it would be ok

 

[cjsdragons]

I kinda disagree on the horn worms because of the horn at the end, but I guess if you cut the horn off it would be ok

yeah forgot to add that lol

 

[Love4animals]

Lol XD

 

[Chirple]

I don't think Paradon and I are necessarily on opposite sides. I'm not totally against pinkies/fuzzies, but they have a limited place in a Bearded Dragon's diet (if any, depending on the keeper) - and if you do want to include them, you just have to feed very sparingly. I don't think we disagree on that.

The problem is when people feed beaded dragons mice in excess - I've read people who had rescues where the previous owner fed them as a staple, even !

They're one of those things that's not necessary in a bearded dragon's diet - so including it must be a well-thought-out choice. It sounds like Paradon has so I don't think we have a fight.



Horn worms are great. I've never fed them, myself, so I haven't gotten first hand experience with how much of an issue their "horns" are. But they're good for them and have soft, easy-to-digest bodies.

 

[Paradon]

Glad to here you are not bashing me! for some reason I thought I would get a lot of hate mail for even mentioning this. :wink: But I do think the danger of feeding rodents to the bearded dragons are exaggerated a little. They are high in fat, so yes, feed it sparingly and offer a lot of salad afterwards...

 

[cjsdragons]

Glad to here you are not bashing me! for some reason I thought I would get a lot of hate mail for even mentioning this. :wink: But I do think the danger of feeding rodents to the bearded dragons are exaggerated a little. They are high in fat, so yes, feed it sparingly and offer a lot of salad afterwards...

i dont think fat is the concern for many people its the bone structure being formed and whos to say pinkies dont have some structure currently being formed

 

[Love4animals]

I would only feed a pinky not a fuzzy but if I were to feed my Beardie a pinky it would be like evey three months. I agree chirple with the horn worms