Are you feeding your baby dragon enough...?

[ShannyBeard]

Many people discover beardeddragon.org and create an account to ask if they are feeding their baby dragon enough. The thread is nearly always a question wanting to know if the pet store was correct and they should be feeding their baby dragon 6 crickets a day. Most of the time, the new beardie owner is shocked when we advise that the baby should be eating as many appropriately sized feeders as it will eat in a 10-15 minute period of time. "How can the pet stores be that wrong...?" Often we are asked if we are SURE that they should eat THAT MANY...? Many new owners become surprised, saddened or amused at how expensive it can be to feed a baby properly. Often, when a new owner realizes that they have not been feeding enough, they feel bad or guilty as if they are starving the baby. They wonder what could have been...as in, what if we fed him properly from the start - how different would he be? How much bigger, or fatter or stronger...? That is always hard to tell, since we can't go back in time and feed more and compare both outcomes.

I have an interesting opportunity to show what could have been by comparing two 5-month old dragons. Below is a picture of two dragons from the same clutch, the same parents, hatched at the same time, and are the same age, from the same breeder. They were both purchased at a reptile show from the breeder, on about the same date, and purchased by two different people. The dragon on the right was fed as many appropriately size feeders as she would eat in a 10-15 minute period, three times a day, through the age of three months, then scaled down to being fed as many feeders as she would eat in a 10-15 minute period twice a day. She had a variety of feeders including crickets, silkworms and small roaches, all no bigger than the space between her eyes. The dragon on the left was fed according to pet store guidelines.

The dragon on the right weighs 226 grams. The dragon on the left weighs 60 grams. Interestingly, the smaller dragon is slightly underweight and dehydrated in the picture, as you can tell his head looks a little big for his body, but what is shocking is that he doesn't look starved. I am sure he has spent a lot of time hungry, but his body slowed down his growth and he just looks like a very small dragon. If I were to guess, I would say he was about 3 months old.

I hope this example helps the people who ask if they really honestly need to feed their baby dragon as much as it can eat in a 10-15 minute period of time to understand how stunted their baby's growth will be if they feed a limited number of feeders.

This picture was taken in my home on 8/31/2012. As of 9/5/12 the smaller dragon weighs 76 grams. I am naturally curious if the smaller dragon can 'catch up' to the larger dragon now that he is eating more and eating regularly. People have asked if they feed more will their dragon recover and grow up to be big, and we don't have a definite answer for them. Over the coming months I am hoping the little guy can catch up to his sister.

 

[Courtney4627]

Thank you for this post it was very helpful to me. I just have one question, do we do this everyday? And if so how long do we feed him everyday?

 

[ShannyBeard]

Thank you for this post it was very helpful to me. I just have one question, do we do this everyday? And if so how long do we feed him everyday?

I am so glad this is helpful to you. Yes, you need to make sure your dragon gets daily protein through the age of 10-12 months, then they will transition to more salad and greens and less protein, gradually. Some start the process of weaning off daily protein a bit sooner, and some a bit later.

Until Spring (dragon on right) was 3-1/2 months or so old, we fed her morning, noon and afternoon. Lights on is 6am, and they are usually warmed up and ready to eat their salad by 6:30-7am. We offered as many feeders as she would eat in a 10-15 minute period, 7 days a week. Of course, we offer salad in the morning, and then about 30 minutes later we would offer feeders, then feeders at lunch, and then feeders again between 4-5pm.

She could average 10-30 crickets or roaches in that time period, and about 10-20 small silkworms on 'worm days.' We patiently give a few at a time and as she eats them give more, until she started to not show hunger orinterest anymore. Some dragons will eat more, and some will eat less. Spring has always been a hungry little piglet. Typically, our babies are jumping to eat three times a day, and if they are not then something may be wrong with them, or they are cold or stressed in some way. I also find a variety of feeders keeps them interested, as they can also get bored with their food.

When she passed the 3-1/2 to 4 month age we stopped the noon feeding, and continued the morning and afternoon 10-15 minute feeding sessions.

 

[KDK241]

Great post! I think it should be a sticky :wink: It would help answer a lot of questions right away and the picture shows why its important. Hearing that your beardie will be smaller is one thing but actually seeing it is huge.

 

[ynevar]

The dragon on the left was fed according to pet store guidelines.

I think for me Shanny that was the saddest thing. NOT being the correct information by the pet store, and when it's people who run the store (not a big chain) that you ordinarily trust very well it's even worse. I am glad I found out about so many things through bd.org it helped me with dealing with coccidia and feeding them correctly. I spent a LOT of time reading through this forum once I realized that things were NOT adding up, (advice from pet store and everything that knowledgeable people from here were saying). It's great people like yourself who post good information that help out so much.

My guys are slowly catching up in size, one I fear will always be smaller. I am very happy you posted this, I hope that some new beardie owner sees the difference and realizes how much they should be feeding their baby dragons. One wouldn't keep a bottle away from a baby human--why keep necessary food away from a baby reptile? I wish that all pet stores and their staff were as knowledable as the people here, there might not be so many dragons that are underfed, improperly housed or otherwise treated badly. In a lot of cases pet owners do not even know they are doing poorly by their animal. So sad.

 

[ShannyBeard]

Great post! I think it should be a sticky :wink: It would help answer a lot of questions right away and the picture shows why its important. Hearing that your beardie will be smaller is one thing but actually seeing it is huge.

Yes I really do believe seeing the size difference is an eye-opener. I have always shared my own experience with my first dragon with others on this website, since we bought him from an actual reptile shop and were still told that he would average 6-10 crickets a day. My husband searched the internet for more information because he noticed the little guy would eat and eat and eat if we let him, and he was a baby so we logically wanted to keep feeding him. We got our first dragon when he was 10 days old, and he has always been fed as much as he would eat in 10-15 minutes. We would see other people posting pictures of their dragons at 3 months and our guy was twice as big.

I've even had new dragon owners on this website argue with me about how much I say a baby should be fed. I've always wished there was a way I could really get people to understand that a growing animal needs to be given enough protein to develop to its full potential. When we got the call to take this little dragon and we asked where it originated from, and then found out it was a clutchmate of our own Spring, we were amazed at the size difference. And this isn't a case of neglect, it is a case of owner misinformation. I do find that in working in reptile rescue most of the problems that befall reptiles stem from the keeper having incorrect advice and information on feeding or husbandry. That is why while I hated to post this thread on the one hand, the information is so important and the picture is worth so much more than words, I had to come forward with it. I'll keep it updated as he grows, too. In this picture Spring is looking at him like she would eat him for a snack. :lol:

 

[mudskipper]

I'm voting to have this thread put up as a sticky as well. New members will find this very useful. It's so sad and upsetting that so many pet stores, especially those that are well known, are so misinformed and uneducated.

Please keep us posted on the progress. It will be very interesting to see if the smaller one can catch up to the big one or if he's going to be a few inches smaller when they are both adults.

 

[ShannyBeard]

The dragon on the left was fed according to pet store guidelines.

I think for me Shanny that was the saddest thing. NOT being the correct information by the pet store, and when it's people who run the store (not a big chain) that you ordinarily trust very well it's even worse. I am glad I found out about so many things through bd.org it helped me with dealing with coccidia and feeding them correctly. I spent a LOT of time reading through this forum once I realized that things were NOT adding up, (advice from pet store and everything that knowledgeable people from here were saying). It's great people like yourself who post good information that help out so much.

My guys are slowly catching up in size, one I fear will always be smaller. I am very happy you posted this, I hope that some new beardie owner sees the difference and realizes how much they should be feeding their baby dragons. One wouldn't keep a bottle away from a baby human--why keep necessary food away from a baby reptile? I wish that all pet stores and their staff were as knowledable as the people here, there might not be so many dragons that are underfed, improperly housed or otherwise treated badly. In a lot of cases pet owners do not even know they are doing poorly by their animal. So sad.

It really and truly is sad that well intentioned people are given the wrong information on a daily basis. That is why it is important for all of us to reach out to others and show them how to take care of their reptiles correctly. If you have knowledge, share it. If you don't know what you are doing, zip it and learn, then share what you have learned. If we all work together this kind of thing can be avoided, I hope. Not sure how to tackle the pet stores on this, other than to tell people not to shop at the chain PetStores, and find a local store that you can bond with and educate.

 

[ShannyBeard]

I'm voting to have this thread put up as a sticky as well. New members will find this very useful. It's so sad and upsetting that so many pet stores, especially those that are well known, are so misinformed and uneducated.

Please keep us posted on the progress. It will be very interesting to see if the smaller one can catch up to the big one or if he's going to be a few inches smaller when they are both adults.

This forum doesn't really do too many stickys, but I am sure the thread will be around for a while. I will keep up with Aries progress (the little guy) and keep comparing him to Spring (the monster, lol) and see where they wind up. He is already 1/2 grown, though, if you think of his age of 5 months, so not sure how much catching up he will do.

The little guy is a happy little creature, and he eats everything I put in front of him. As soon as he is really settled in here and I feel his system won't be shocked, I am going heavy on the protein and hoping he will pack away the silkworms for me. With 60% protein I think that is going to be his best bet at this point.

 

[Claudiusx]

Good post.

It's great you were able to get such a good example! For most people, pictures speak louder than words. :mrgreen:

-Brandon

 

[ShannyBeard]

Good post.

It's great you were able to get such a good example! For most people, pictures speak louder than words. :mrgreen:

-Brandon

Brandon! I agree, and it is an insane twist of fate that we got asked if we wanted to take this dragon. I would have taken him no matter what, but just having him as a teaching instrument makes it even better. The side-by-side pic is mindblowing. Just goes to show how much growth happens in a short time.

 

[Raicardso]

I see you said your dragon eats about 10-30 crickets a feeding time... I'm jealous!
My 4 month eats about 50-60 mediums three times a day...

Also i remember seeing somewhere that it's good to go down from feeding three times a day to two times a day. When is a good time to do that? Lets say i want to stop his feeding time at about 7pm and keep it at 9am and 3pm. Would i just "Cold Turkey" stop feeding him at 7pm or slowly die down with the feeding at that time? Example, Go from his current 60cricket at 7pm to 40, then to 20, then stop?

Thanks ahead for the help!

 

[snazzyglasses]

I really really think this should be a sticky too. Thanks for the great post!

Also i remember seeing somewhere that it's good to go down from feeding three times a day to two times a day. When is a good time to do that? Lets say i want to stop his feeding time at about 7pm and keep it at 9am and 3pm. Would i just "Cold Turkey" stop feeding him at 7pm or slowly die down with the feeding at that time? Example, Go from his current 60cricket at 7pm to 40, then to 20, then stop?

Thanks ahead for the help!

Shannybeard's second post on this thread answers your question actually (the one where she replied to Courtney) It kind of sounds like they just plain stopped the afternoon (middle) feeding when they went from three to two daily feedings. I'm not positive though (especially since we got our dragons when they were adults), so someone else can feel free chime in!

 

[Raicardso]

I really really think this should be a sticky too. Thanks for the great post!

Also i remember seeing somewhere that it's good to go down from feeding three times a day to two times a day. When is a good time to do that? Lets say i want to stop his feeding time at about 7pm and keep it at 9am and 3pm. Would i just "Cold Turkey" stop feeding him at 7pm or slowly die down with the feeding at that time? Example, Go from his current 60cricket at 7pm to 40, then to 20, then stop?

Thanks ahead for the help!

Shannybeard's second post on this thread answers your question actually (the one where she replied to Courtney) It kind of sounds like they just plain stopped the afternoon (middle) feeding when they went from three to two daily feedings. I'm not positive though (especially since we got our dragons when they were adults), so someone else can feel free chime in!

Yes if someone else will give their opinion that would be great too! Especially for *When* i should go down to twice a day

 

[ShannyBeard]

I see you said your dragon eats about 10-30 crickets a feeding time... I'm jealous!
My 4 month eats about 50-60 mediums three times a day...

Also i remember seeing somewhere that it's good to go down from feeding three times a day to two times a day. When is a good time to do that? Lets say i want to stop his feeding time at about 7pm and keep it at 9am and 3pm. Would i just "Cold Turkey" stop feeding him at 7pm or slowly die down with the feeding at that time? Example, Go from his current 60cricket at 7pm to 40, then to 20, then stop?

Thanks ahead for the help!

Nice! :lol: Those growth spurts are hard on the wallet. I remember when our Chief was like that, pounding 100 crickets a day, before we knew as much about feeder variety as we do today.

It sounds like your dragon is hungry with the volume he is eating. If he is in a growth spurt and not getting fat, you can give him a 3rd feeding; but make it less or even make it salad if you are concerned that he is getting fat and not just growing in a normal proportion. No dragon is the same, and you have to evaluate your dragon and work the diet out. Some of my dragons are pickier and don't like crickets, so they tend to eat much less on cricket days and more on worm and roach days.

We sometimes have a flexible feeding schedule, too. There are days that we will go get crickets for the babies for their lunch feeding and buy some crickets for the adults, too. The adults can eat more feeders than the babies, like superworms, so they get crickets less often. The adults will get crickets at lunch on those days. I think there is some benefit to varying your feeding times a little every once in a while. Not hours and hours off to where they are hungry, but a lunch feeding every once in a while is nice and with only a larger salad in the morning. Sometimes my year-old girls will chow on salad and ignore morning feeders for a few days.

It is helpful to weigh your dragon to get an idea of how he is growing, too.