All of my Baby Beardies keep dieing :(

[freexskate]

hello,
My name is Jordan, and over the last couple months I've had two separate baby beardies (around 6-8 inches total length) die on me, the first one died shortly after I got it back in August, I had him in a 20 gallon long aquarium with a 100 watt ceramic heat emitter, and a 24 inch 10.0 repti-glow UVB fluorescent light. The CHE was on at all times, but the visible light was on a 9am to 9pm schedule with a light timer. The substrate was vinyl tile. I kept a bowl of fresh water (rinsed and re-filled every day) available at all times. the elevated basking spot surface temperature was upper 90's to 100 degrees Fahrenheit and the cool side was in the upper 70's to mid 80's. He was fed a mixture of rinsed collard greens/turnip greens with some summer squash and every now and then some strawberry pieces as well as 4-6 small crickets twice a day, dusted in Rep-Cal with no D3.
That first beardie, Jasper, who was a translucent baby around 6.5 inches STL, just randomly stopped eating and even though I took him to the vet, and they gave me liquid calcium to give him by dropper, and fluids to give him by injection under the skin he eventually succumbed to just refusing to eat. The beardie I got shortly after that, Rameses was just a normal baby, around 8 inches STL was kept in the same exact setup (after MUCH cleaning and disinfecting, bought a new water dish, and new tile for the bottom.) and he died about a month or so after I first got him, one morning when I woke up to go to work, the lights came on and he hopped up in the basking spot like every other day and was perfectly fine. When I came home from work not more than 4 hours later, he was laying on the ground sprawled out...twitching and opening his mouth, gasping for air, I called the vet and they told me to give him a soak being sure to keep his head out of the water. So I did. I put him back in his cage and went to attend one of my classes, I came home from that around 3 hours later to find him having full blown seizures and still gasping for air..It was very painful to watch. I let him be for the rest of the night, knowing that there was nothing I could do, and sure enough, when I woke up the next morning, he had passed.
I love reptiles and have kept them all of my life, with bearded dragons being one of my favorites, I want to keep one and definitely want to try to get another one, but not until I figure out what I've been doing wrong, or what keeps happening to them? (on a side note...my baby corn snake that my girlfriend had just gotten me for my birthday died shortly after my beardie died, he died during a fit of spasms about a week after Rameses did). I am completely stumped, and worried, because I have a tiger salamander in the same room, and he seems to be going along just fine and I don't want anything to happen to him.
If anyone has any suggestions as to what is happening PLEASE let me know...I'm worried about bringing another beardie into the house if it's just going to die due to something on my part..
THANK YOU
-Jordan

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Hi Jordan,
I skimmed thru your post and what stood out to me was the vinal tile.
Heated vinal tile can give off toxic fumes. That might of been the problem.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jordan,

That is horrible luck, sorry to hear that you have lost 2 recently.
Your tank setup looks ok, except for the Reptiglo 10 tube bulb. It is not a good bulb, & emits low wavelength UVB which can be harmful. However, I do not believe that is the culprit, as it would not kill them in that manner or that quickly.
What type of basking light are you using, a bright white light, or a colored light, or were you just using the ceramic heat emitter for the heat source during the day?
What type of thermometer are you using to measure your temperatures with? A stick on type of thermometer, a digital probe or a temp gun?
The vinyl tile, is it the type with adhesive stuck on the back of it? Or is it the non adhesive type?
I agree Tom, the vinyl tile was concerning me, too.
The crickets, could they have come in contact with any type of toxins possibly? What were you feeding the crickets prior to feeding them to your dragons?

Tracie

 

[ziggy23]

What rotten luck! I am so sorry for your losses.

The only thing I can think of to add is after you figure out what the problem is, I would buying recommend an older dragon from a reputable breeder. Hatchlings can go downhill rather quickly. You'll have an easier time with an animal that's a little more robust. It doesn't have to be too much older. A few months can make a difference.

 

[freexskate]

yes, I was using the CHE for the basking spot, I was using a Temp gun from Proexotics to record all of my temperatures.
The crickets were gut loaded on the orange/green cricket cubes you can buy in the pet store, and every time I got new crickets, (once a week at least) I would wash out the critter keeper they were in with a very mild bleach solution and rinse with dechlorinated water, I never had problems with the crix dieing in the cricket keeper, so I don't think that was the problem. the repti-sun was only until the beardie got to 12 inches, then he was going into his 75 gallon home with a mega-ray MVB to provide all of his UVB needs.
Come to think of it...the tile was adhesive backed...and even on ground level on the hot side, the tile still got up into the high 80's so it was getting pretty warm, easily warm enough to give off fumes from the hot adhesive beneath. Has there been anyone else who has had problems with the stuff? my next beardie will definitely be on paper towels for a while, and then ceramic tile in his 75 gallon.
thank you guys for the quick responses!! Any other ideas/inputs are still greatly appreciated!

Thank You

-Jordan Kingsley

 

[diamc]

Hello Jordan, so sorry to hear about your babies dieing. It was a good idea to fill us in on things to try to help you figure out what could have caused the deaths.

I also tend to agree with the others that it could have been from the adhesive vinyl tiles because of the fumes. Something else that caught my eye was that you were using a 100 watt ceramic heat emitter in a 20 gallon tank. The CHE's actually get hotter than a normal 100 watt bulb and that is a LOT of wattage for that small sized tank. You mentioned that you were using a temperature gun. If you were holding the gun any further than a few inches away to get the reading, then they were probably higher than that. Usually in a 20 gallon tank, you would only need a 40 to 60 watt (at the most) household light bulb to get 100 degree temps but it depends on how close the beardie is to the basking bulb of course as well as room temps.

Beardies do much better under a bright white basking bulb and for the fluorescent UVB to be right alongside it as they can get the benefit of both bulbs at the same time. The white bulbs give them more energy which in turn helps to increase their appetites. Baby beardies should be wanting to eat anywhere from 30 to 100 appropriately sized (no bigger than the space between their eyes) a day. How often were you dusting their feeders with calcium and vitamins? When using a UVB other than a MVB, you should be using calcium WITH D3.

Were you using a Repti-Sun or a Repti-Glo UVB tube? What was the distance of it?

Another option for the bottom of a tank is NON-adhesive shelf liner, is perfect for babies and it cleans very easily. Babies are particular with their needs so you might want to consider getting one at least 3 months old instead, just a thought.