13yr Old (F) Tail and Head Fat Stores Depleted

C3Sound

Member
Original Poster
Hey all, I Have a 13-year-old female that is lethargic, sleeps for most of the day, has a hard time passing waste, and generally hasn't been eating much recently. I took her to the vet and they are giving her a vitamin, fluid, and anti-biotic shot (so far 2 of each spaced 3 days apart, with the last 3rd scheduled for Friday)

Her tail and head have sunken areas which I am assuming are fat stores that have been depleted.

Is this age? Is she just nearing the end of her life, and has just become too weak to continue?

Please advise! Thank you all!
 

C3Sound

Member
Original Poster
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AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Oh my, she's actually near death I'm sad to say. Have you had her all her life or just part of it ? I highly doubt she can be helped in this condition at her age and the shots are probably very uncomfortable with so little muscle mass. It might be best to let her go in peace. You can offer a little water mixed with non citrus fruit juice or raw honey dripped on her snout in case she wants to drink though.
 

J4ckdaw-

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Leo
Oh dear, that dragon looks very ill 😥

For starters, let’s go over your lighting. What type of UVB fixture do you use? Is it a coil or a tube lamp? No coils, please! They are very inadequate and provide little to no UV — that could contribute to this sudden illness.

Ideally, you should be using either a Reptisun 10.0 bulb or an Arcadia T5 bulb. Inferior brands such as Zilla or Zoomed aren’t recommended and could even cause the same problems that coil bulbs do, again, another possible cause of this illness.

As for basking bulbs, the wattage you should have varies by brand. Please don’t use a deep heat projector, they dry out your bearded dragon! Your basking spot should be within the 105-110 degree range, since a bearded dragon’s preferred core temperature is 97f.

How are you measuring the temperatures? Digital probes are the most accurate, please don’t use stick-ons or temperature guns. What is the humidity? Should be between 30-48%, can get higher at night.

With that out of the way, let’s talk about her diet… I’m sorry to say but what I see in that food bowl can be pretty harmful, spinach is a calcium binder and should never be fed. Pellets are also a big no-no, those should not be included in her diet whatsoever.

Is that all she gets in her salads? Remember to include variety, for example, I use three different staple greens with a variety of squashes and legumes. I’ll list some different staple green options below, along with some other greens/veggies you can include.

Staples:

Collard greens
Kale
Mustard greens
Dandelion
Cauliflower greens (not the head)
Beet greens
prickly pear (peeled)
Endive
Escarole
Alfalfa

Occasionally:

Bell pepper
Squash
Zucchini
Green beans
Snow peas
Carrot
Some flowers

Never:

Spinnach
Broccoli
Cauliflower heads
Avacado
Mushrooms
Iceburg lettuce

I hope that clears things up salad wise, please change that up asap. As for live feeders, she is an adult so she only needs 5-6 appropriately sized insects 2x a week. No larger than the space between her eyes.

Make sure you are using some of the following staple insects:

Roaches
Crickets
Silkworms
Pheonix worms
Locusts

Mealworms and superworms are great feeders as well but their hard exoskeletons might cause her some tummy troubles since she’s already so frail and weak. How long has she been like this? I’d assume a while considering how malnourished she is.

If it’s been a long time since she ate properly, try and avoid Waxworms or butterworms. Their high fat content might make her more sick, but if it hasn’t been too long you could try and give her some of those to get her weight up. Only a few at a time.

What is her supplementation schedule? Her feeders should have been dusted with calcium for every meal, D3 isn’t necessary if she has the proper UVB fixture. You could run and pick up some multivitamin since she isn’t eating salad I’d assume?

I’d also pick up some probiotics, mix a safe amount of each supplement with some distilled water and crushed insects and greens to make a slurry. You need to get food into her FAST. Get a non-sharp syringe and gently poke it in her mouth.

Go slow, make sure she swallows. She is very frail and weak. It might be hard for her. Do that several times a day in small amounts, every day of the week. She is severally underweight and dehydrated. You could try to drip some water on her nose to drink.

You say she has a hard time defecating? I’d guess constipation from severe dehydration, blockage from internal issues, or impaction. Is that plain sand you’re using? Plain sand should not be used as substrate unless it’s mixed with reptisoil, topsoil, or cocofiber.

Change it out asap, you could use either a mix of topsoil/reptisoil/cocofiber and sand, tile, cabinet liner, or zen mats. Please no reptile carpets, or reptibark. They are both hazardous.

I am so, so sorry 😣 I do think it could be old age catching up to her, she might not have long. My heart goes out to you and your family, she was very loved. Keep us posted if she gets better, she’s a trooper for living to 13!
 

C3Sound

Member
Original Poster
I have had her all her life - from probably around 2 weeks old. Is there anything that is clear as to why she is near death with little possibility of help? Is it just the combination of symptoms and age?

Oh, apologies about the spinach - she never gets this actually! (I was just trying to see if she would eat anything thin and easier to munch than the pellets). She actually has been eating those pellets since she stopped wanting live food back when she was around 7 years old.

The substrate is the walnut sand - not actual sand. This is what shes used since she was around 3 years old.
 

C3Sound

Member
Original Poster
She did go to the bathroom today, quite a bit - but no impaction. Aside from the amount, it looks generally normal. I think it's just primarily being weak and unable to push.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
She is quite old for a beardie and it's very difficult to bring one back to health at this condition even when they are younger. You can try the slurries that Jdaw mentioned, it might buy her a few days or weeks but not much more. There's possibility of impaction from the walnut sand, and that on top of everything makes the outlook even worse. You can still try but I'd not have her in for more shots from the vet.
 

J4ckdaw-

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Leo
I have had her all her life - from probably around 2 weeks old. Is there anything that is clear as to why she is near death with little possibility of help? Is it just the combination of symptoms and age?

Oh, apologies about the spinach - she never gets this actually! (I was just trying to see if she would eat anything thin and easier to munch than the pellets). She actually has been eating those pellets since she stopped wanting live food back when she was around 7 years old.

The substrate is the walnut sand - not actual sand. This is what shes used since she was around 3 years old.
Most likely old age, but with such age comes a higher risk of sickness. You could take in the stool she just had for a fecal test to check for parasites, or get a blood work done to see if it’s any type of deficiency or infection or something. We have a vet tech mod who can look it over, like AHBD said it’s hard to bring such an old creature out of poor health.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
No bloodwork, she's too thin for that. The tail has to have some muscle/tissue to put the needle in to draw blood and all the poking would be confusing, painful and stressful. Minimum interactions would be best, just offering hydration and a slurry if she'll take any. Her body is in no condition for other testing, parasite meds, etc. Just "hospice" care.
 

J4ckdaw-

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Leo
No bloodwork, she's too thin for that. The tail has to have some muscle/tissue to put the needle in to draw blood and all the poking would be confusing, painful and stressful. Minimum interactions would be best, just offering hydration and a slurry if she'll take any. Her body is in no condition for other testing, parasite meds, etc. Just "hospice" care.
Okay, you have a fair point. It just kills me to see a bearded dragon (or any animal for that matter) in pain like this. No blooodworks is probably for the best, your right :(
 

C3Sound

Member
Original Poster
I will say, she has been taken great care of during her life. She's driven across the country 3 times with me. Seen the Grand Canyon. Been best friends with my dog. Bathed in the California sunshine on rooftops and lounged in hammocks. Watched countless movies with us. She's lived a pretty carefree life and never had to go to the vet until now.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Wow, she has had a long and happy life with you , and if my replies sound cold and clinical they're not meant to be. There's a beloved pet and a distraught owner involved and anyone would want the best for you both in this difficult situation.
 

J4ckdaw-

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Leo
I will say, she has been taken great care of during her life. She's driven across the country 3 times with me. Seen the Grand Canyon. Been best friends with my dog. Bathed in the California sunshine on rooftops and lounged in hammocks. Watched countless movies with us. She's lived a pretty carefree life and never had to go to the vet until now.
Sounds like she had an amazing life with you! I bet she knows she’s been loved
 

J4ckdaw-

Sub-Adult Member
Beardie name(s)
Leo
Wow, she has had a long and happy life with you , and if my replies sound cold and clinical they're not meant to be. There's a beloved pet and a distraught owner involved and anyone would want the best for you both in this difficult situation.
I completely agree, it’s hard to portray emotion over a few paragraphs. I 100% don’t mean for my replies/comments to sound clinical or disrespectful.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Bless her, I am sorry she has started to decline. I'm sure she absolutely felt love for her entire life with
you so she will be at peace. It sounds like she has had a lot of fun traveling around with you!
I really wish that the vet wouldn't have given an antibiotic though, for her at her age. It is way too harsh
on younger dragons but even harder on older dragons' kidneys & system.

Let us know how she is doing. We are all here for you, it is very emotionally hard to go through situations.

Tracie
 

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