Zeke Fatty Live Disease - Update w/ Pics

[BeardieMommy3991]

Just read through you guy's situation, and I'm wishing Zeke the best of luck and a speedy recovery. This hits way too close to home, because my first beardie acted the same way right before he passed. I'm glad yours is pulling through admirably! I'll be sending you well wishes. <3

 

[Esther19]

Zeke is a fighter, and he has you fighting right alongside him. I have every confidence that he will make it through this. And the vet is in tomorrow! I hope you and Zeke are resting well.

 

[Drache613]

Hello!

How is Zeke doing today? I hope he had a great day today.
Keep us posted on him! He is a special boy.


Tracie

 

[Mirrorakay]

Sorry, I didn't have time to update yesterday. Zeke's day was one of the rougher ones yesterday. He didn't seem to feel nearly as well and stayed put for most the day. For a while he did bask, but it was short lived. His upset stomach finally seemed to get the best of him and he vomited a lot of the food I had gotten into him. After he threw up, Zeke spent most of the day sleeping in the shade of the tank. Hopefully the vet will have something to help us out!

 

[Irwinshealth]

I was just checking in again since it's Monday and you mentioned the vet. How is Zeke after yesterdays backtracking? I hope better!!! Please send my hugs to the little guy

 

[Mirrorakay]

The vet wants me to try something called Fresh Digest. He wants me to add a bit to Zeke's food and see if it makes a difference. Otherwise he just said we could just be dealing with the nausea that comes with fatty liver disease. However, he said from the sounds of it, Zeke isn't really digesting anything I have been putting in to him. At that point he thinks there may be some sort of obstruction and since Zeke hasn't pooped in the last week, there's a good chance nothing is making it past Zeke's stomach.

In other words we still have a lot of watch-and-wait stuff to do.

As for Zeke, he is having a hard day. He doesn't seem to have the energy he's had and is busy hiding himself in the shade in his tank. No doubt he feels awful after throwing up yesterday.

 

[Irwinshealth]

As for Zeke, he is having a hard day

Sorry to hear that. Did Tracie ever hear of the stuff (Fresh Digest)the vet mentioned? She may be able to tell you more.
I sure hope tomorrow is better.

 

[Mirrorakay]

From what I understood, it is essentially a probiotic used for cats and dogs. So far Zeke hasn't been willing to swallow his probiotic, so I'm hoping mixing one in with his food will help. He is done with the antibiotic so I can give it through the tube rather than trying to get him to swallow it.

 

[diamc]

I did a search and found this info about it. http://www.entirelypets.com/freshdigest100g.html Another probiotic that you could have mixed with his food is powdered Benebac that Tracie has on her site: http://bug-de-lite.com/Product%20Details%20Page.html / http://bug-de-lite.com/Products%20Page.html

 

[Mirrorakay]

Yeah, I found the same site as you when I looked it up. Anyways, I gave it a shot and mixed it in with his food morning. Unfortunately he started bubbling from his nose almost immediately after I tube fed him. Then, when I checked on him after work, his face seemed to be covered in the stuff coming out of his nose. His entire beard is covered, as are his lips, and his nostrils are almost entirely crusted over. It is a lot more than I have seen him bubble out before.

I'm half tempted to leave it on his, aside from the stuff directly on his nostrils, so the vet can see what I am talking about if I end up taking Zeke in tomorrow (we have a schedule update phone call). The vet hasn't actually seen him bubble so he is going based off of my description. At the same time, I know I wouldn't want to sit around covered in vomit so I will be cleaning him up. I just wish the vet was a live-in type deal so they could really see what is going on.

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

I've been lurking on your thread for a while, but wanted to actually post and say I'm so sorry that you and little Zeke are going through so much trouble. I lost one of my beardie girls Monster few weeks ago due to sudden heart failure and my other beardie girl Lotus was pretty sick for the past week as well. So I understand what it's like to be worried to death, and I feel for you. Zeke definitely seems like a fighter though, and if it's at all possible for him to pull through this then I'm sure he will! You are certainly doing everything right for him.

Can your vet do another ultrasound to check for obstructions or swelling in his intestines/stomach which could be causing the vomiting? He could also check the "movement" of Zeke's digestive system to make sure everything is going in the right direction. My Lotus was having vomiting issues as well (you can read her thread here if you want >>> viewtopic.php?f=45&t=172680). When my vet did the ultrasound he found that the movement of her digestive system was kind of rocking back and forth instead of moving towards her rear end like it should. My vet prescribed a medication called Metoclopramide. It's not very commonly used in reptiles from what I understand, but it definitely seemed to help my dragon's digestive tract move in the right direction. Maybe you could ask Tracie and your vet if something like that could possibly help Zeke with the vomiting issues. There are some possible side effects, but it seems to be generally pretty easy on the system - it seemed to help Lotus feel better & there was no loss of appetite or anything like that.

I personally use a Critical/Carnivore Care mix from http://www.beardeddragon.co. It's 2/3 Critcal Care and 1/3 Carnivore Care so it more closely mimics the nutritional proportions of 80% veggies/20% live feeders that a beardie's diet should actually be as if they were eating normally. The Carnivore Care is obviously heavier on the protein - and while protein is good, too much of it is not. Too much protein over an extended period of time can potentially cause organ function issues and elevated uric acid levels, which my dragon also suffers from due to her previous care before I rescued her. You could get some Critical Care and mix it yourself too. I'm no expert, but I remember AHBD telling me that Critical/Carnivore Care is pretty rich for a weak & empty digestive system. Lotus has vomited straight undigested Critical/Carnivore Care before as well. Now I mix mine now with 1 equal part veggie babyfood & 2 parts water, and she's been keeping it down for almost a full week.

Anyway, I don't mean to talk so much about my own dragon - I was just hoping that her recent struggles could maybe help your little Zeke get through his. I think what started Lotus's whole vomiting ordeal may have been related to her temps being just a tad too low to digest food. I know it's a really simple thing, but have you checked his temps recently? Sometimes the simplest things can go overlooked when you're facing issues so much bigger.

I do hope your little guy is feeling at least a bit better now. You're doing such an admirable job with him - he's very lucky to have you as a beardie parent! I'll be hoping for your sweet dragon boy to pull through.

 

[Mirrorakay]

I believe tomorrow, seeing how nothing has improved, is planning on running some sort of test to see what sort of movement Zeke is getting when it comes to food. I don't know what exactly he intends to do or if I will be looking at any fees; he mentioned doing either an ultrasound or some sort of test that puts pressure into his stomach to see if anything is blocking the way. As helpful as the vet was last time in getting us through a bunch of a testing at no cost, I don't know if it is something he can do for us again. If that ends up being the case, I'm not entirely sure if I can afford whatever test it is that he wants to do. Fingers crossed that whatever needs to be done is something I can do financially. I would hate for Zeke to have fought so hard to make it this far and lose him anyway.

It seems that Zeke is taking a little longer to get going in the mornings ever since the big vomit. He was making it onto his basking spot around noon to 1:00, but now he doesn't get up there until about 3:00. His beard also seems to be staying consistently darker since the nose bubbling seems to last all day rather than come on in the evenings.

I know that the Carnivore Care is pretty rich stuff, which is why it has been watered down pretty significantly so we can make it as easy on his stomach as possible. We are also only giving rough 4-5mls of food a day to go easy on him. All the same, it seems like his system just can't work with what we're giving him. Maybe the Critical/Carnivore Care mix would be better so I'll see what my vet thinks.

And temps are fine. The basking is sitting around 103 F, warm is about 90 F, and cool side is 83-85 F.

I'll definately talk to my vet tomorrow and let you guys know what is going on.

 

[Esther19]

Would a picture show the vet what you need to? Unless you've already cleaned him up. When my girl was throwing up, the vet did a series of barium x-rays to see how it tracked through her gut, and to see if there were any blockages. We'll all sure be thinking of you tomorrow and awaiting the vet report. Hang in there! You are doing an awesome job with him!

 

[Mirrorakay]

I had already cleaned him up. However, there was no need for any pictures. When the vet tried to tube feed Zeke today (my little man was squirming too much for me to have any success) Zeke bubbled a little out of his nose before throwing up all over the vet. As much as I don't like my guy throwing up, he couldn't have had better timing. This time the vet could see exactly what I had been explaining.

Anyways, we quickly weighed Zeke and found that he is continuing to lose weight. This is a big concern considering that Zeke weighed more when he wasn't eating at all and has only lost weight since we started the tube feeding. Also, Zeke hadn't been fed since early yesterday morning and a healthy bearded dragon wouldn't have had anything in his stomach to throw up. So the vet suspects either his stomach is moving food exceptionally slow or not at all. My vet is working on contacting another vet and running things by them, but he admitted he is puzzled about the whole thing. He is also going to see if they have an endoscope on hand and if they do, he will be putting the camera into Zeke's stomach to get a look around and possibly take some samples. So the vet has it narrowed down to either an infection of some sort that the antibiotics couldn't take care of or some form of obstruction.

Otherwise he said Zeke looks good and still has plenty of fight in him. For right now we're switching up the plan slightly. We are going to do 8mls of food per feeding rather than 5mls, but we are going to switch to feeding every other day. That way his stomach has more time to work on the food we're putting in.

The vet is still doing all of this for free and is going to continue to make as much of Zeke's care as free as possible. Anyways, I should be hearing back later today or tomorrow after my vet is able to talk to the other vet he is trying to get in contact with. I'll update again once I have heard from him.
~~
@Xtina - my vet mentioned mixing the Carnivore Care with some Herbivore Care without me mentioning anything, so he definately is on the same thought process. However, he is going to hold off on that until we rule out the possibility of a blockage of some kind.

 

[Mirrorakay]

I don't think I've ever mentioned where Zeke is at weight-wise and since I talked about weight loss, I think I should mention exactly how much my guy weighs. Back on June 13th, when I took Zeke in because he hadn't eaten for 3 weeks, Zeke weighed 483 grams. Then when I took him in on June 30th for the paper towel incident, Zeke weighed 461 grams. Then last week when I took him in on July 11th, after Zeke cleared all the poo out of his system, Zeke weighed roughly 440 grams. Now, Zeke weighs a mere 430 grams. That means in a little over a month he has lost about 50 grams.

I don't know what he weighed prior to him going off food, but I'd imagine it was somewhere around 490-500 grams. That's just my best guess though. I didn't get a scale for my reptiles until just recently.