WHO USES SAND?!

[DragonOwner1]

Hi i live in beardy country we have plenty of wild bearded dragons around and i can tell you all the ground is not hard pack down like rock. look at pictures below, This is outside in my yard no its not soil its what the ground around this area is covered in. I've been bush walking and the dirt/sand is the same out there as it is here in my yard. In some other parts of australia where they are also found may be on hard packed ground but there not in my town. And to say every wild dragon dies of impaction is just wrong i want to see proof of this do they actually autopsy every wild dragon they find. Ever heard of animals eatting roughage to help in digestion, dogs do it,birds,elephants,rodents,even dinosaurs when they were alive. If they were actually eatting the sand non stop well then its bad but licking at it here and there will not do any damage it passes out when they poo if its very fine sand. To mention my sand is hard packed down like rock so my beardie can only lick at the very fine grains if there is any and it passes out when she poos. If sand is eatting bad why not paper cause if the paper moves a beardy will take a bite out of it. My dog ate paper once took her a week to poo it out and when she did she was crook for a day or 2. I also believe a sorten amount of bacteria is good for them as it helps in building there imune system up. Why do you think doctors say let your kids play in mud,dirt etc to build there imune systems up. Too say that sand has abestos in it is also wrong as there not allowed to use abestos anymore in nothing. I think you are all contradicting yourselfs you say that beardies live on hard packed clay in the wild,then you say that wild beardies die of impaction. If they live on hard packed clay none of them would die of impaction then as there is no loose sand. Also to say that you should feed only prey size that fits betweeen there eyes is also wrong i don't see wild baby beardies with rulers runing around measuring there prey saying nar thats too big,nar thats to small, hell yeah thats the prefect size. My beardie is 5 months old 8 inches long weighs 47grams head space of 1 and half cm and she is knocking down 2cm crickets with ease. Bearded dragons have teeth for a reason, they should chew there food not swallow it whole with one bite. But i'll let people make up there own mind, I know what Safira loves and is happy with i'm not changing her to something that she dislikes eg tiles she wouldn't move,eat and was starting to get bloated cause she wouldn't poo. I had her on tiles for a week and she wasn't showing signs of getting any better so i switch back to what she loves. Here are the pictures.

 

[sarahb]

Hey mgtorrice,
I know there is a whole debate on the whether or not to use sand in your bearded dragons tank. One of my friends who actually got me into buying a bearded dragon of my own, has had bearded dragons for 10 years and even breeded the dragons. My point is, she has always used sand for beardies (even as babies) but not just any type of sand, she strictly used only CALCIUM sand which could pass through the beardies digestive track. I recommend using ONLY calcium sand for your beardie and you can usually get any sand color you want with calcium sand. I use to use calcium sand but I found sand alot more messier and harder to deal with, plus it is a breading ground for bacteria if you do not clean it properly. So what I do recommend is that you use cage liner. Note: NOT INDOOR/OUTDOOR CARPETING. Cage liner is alot safer and possibly the best way to go next to tile. It's easy to clean and you can wash it whenever and know it is safely clean from bacteria and germs. PLUS, it's ALOT CHEAPER. You buy it once and you can use it over and over. Plus, if you buy the brand Zoomed they usually give you TWO carpets so while one carpet is clean you can put the other one in. Trust me, I know that sand looks so beautiful in the tank but when it comes right down to it, you will have alot more money in your pocket and know that your dragon is alot more safer.

Hope this helped!!

 

[Dantro]

Hi i live in beardy country we have plenty of wild bearded dragons around and i can tell you all the ground is not hard pack down like rock. look at pictures below, This is outside in my yard no its not soil its what the ground around this area is covered in. I've been bush walking and the dirt/sand is the same out there as it is here in my yard. In some other parts of australia where they are also found may be on hard packed ground but there not in my town. And to say every wild dragon dies of impaction is just wrong i want to see proof of this do they actually autopsy every wild dragon they find. Ever heard of animals eatting roughage to help in digestion, dogs do it,birds,elephants,rodents,even dinosaurs when they were alive. If they were actually eatting the sand non stop well then its bad but licking at it here and there will not do any damage it passes out when they poo if its very fine sand. To mention my sand is hard packed down like rock so my beardie can only lick at the very fine grains if there is any and it passes out when she poos. If sand is eatting bad why not paper cause if the paper moves a beardy will take a bite out of it. My dog ate paper once took her a week to poo it out and when she did she was crook for a day or 2. I also believe a sorten amount of bacteria is good for them as it helps in building there imune system up. Why do you think doctors say let your kids play in mud,dirt etc to build there imune systems up. Too say that sand has abestos in it is also wrong as there not allowed to use abestos anymore in nothing. I think you are all contradicting yourselfs you say that beardies live on hard packed clay in the wild,then you say that wild beardies die of impaction. If they live on hard packed clay none of them would die of impaction then as there is no loose sand. Also to say that you should feed only prey size that fits betweeen there eyes is also wrong i don't see wild baby beardies with rulers runing around measuring there prey saying nar thats too big,nar thats to small, hell yeah thats the prefect size. My beardie is 5 months old 8 inches long weighs 47grams head space of 1 and half cm and she is knocking down 2cm crickets with ease. Bearded dragons have teeth for a reason, they should chew there food not swallow it whole with one bite. But i'll let people make up there own mind, I know what Safira loves and is happy with i'm not changing her to something that she dislikes eg tiles she wouldn't move,eat and was starting to get bloated cause she wouldn't poo. I had her on tiles for a week and she wasn't showing signs of getting any better so i switch back to what she loves. Here are the pictures.

Thanks for that its real good to know, i know this debate (sand, tile blah, blah, blah) will still rage on but i'm for sand and always will be, it looks natural and if its close to natural conditions even better, thanks for the time you took to write it!

 

[Hopefulresearch]

Hey mgtorrice,
I know there is a whole debate on the whether or not to use sand in your bearded dragons tank. One of my friends who actually got me into buying a bearded dragon of my own, has had bearded dragons for 10 years and even breeded the dragons. My point is, she has always used sand for beardies (even as babies) but not just any type of sand, she strictly used only CALCIUM sand which could pass through the beardies digestive track. I recommend using ONLY calcium sand for your beardie and you can usually get any sand color you want with calcium sand. I use to use calcium sand but I found sand alot more messier and harder to deal with, plus it is a breading ground for bacteria if you do not clean it properly. So what I do recommend is that you use cage liner. Note: NOT INDOOR/OUTDOOR CARPETING. Cage liner is alot safer and possibly the best way to go next to tile. It's easy to clean and you can wash it whenever and know it is safely clean from bacteria and germs. PLUS, it's ALOT CHEAPER. You buy it once and you can use it over and over. Plus, if you buy the brand Zoomed they usually give you TWO carpets so while one carpet is clean you can put the other one in. Trust me, I know that sand looks so beautiful in the tank but when it comes right down to it, you will have alot more money in your pocket and know that your dragon is alot more safer.

Hope this helped!!

Actually, I'm not sure on the reasoning behind this but calcium sand is WORSE than regular sand, it can clump in your beardies stomach I think.

 

[Dantro]

I dont know if there are different types of Claci sand, but personally i wouldnt touch it again, i used it many years ago it was way too dusty aswell as the possible risks involved.

 

[DrNachoZ]

Hi i live in beardy country we have plenty of wild bearded dragons around and i can tell you all the ground is not hard pack down like rock. look at pictures below, This is outside in my yard no its not soil its what the ground around this area is covered in. I've been bush walking and the dirt/sand is the same out there as it is here in my yard. In some other parts of australia where they are also found may be on hard packed ground but there not in my town. And to say every wild dragon dies of impaction is just wrong i want to see proof of this do they actually autopsy every wild dragon they find. Ever heard of animals eatting roughage to help in digestion, dogs do it,birds,elephants,rodents,even dinosaurs when they were alive. If they were actually eatting the sand non stop well then its bad but licking at it here and there will not do any damage it passes out when they poo if its very fine sand. To mention my sand is hard packed down like rock so my beardie can only lick at the very fine grains if there is any and it passes out when she poos. If sand is eatting bad why not paper cause if the paper moves a beardy will take a bite out of it. My dog ate paper once took her a week to poo it out and when she did she was crook for a day or 2. I also believe a sorten amount of bacteria is good for them as it helps in building there imune system up. Why do you think doctors say let your kids play in mud,dirt etc to build there imune systems up. Too say that sand has abestos in it is also wrong as there not allowed to use abestos anymore in nothing. I think you are all contradicting yourselfs you say that beardies live on hard packed clay in the wild,then you say that wild beardies die of impaction. If they live on hard packed clay none of them would die of impaction then as there is no loose sand. Also to say that you should feed only prey size that fits betweeen there eyes is also wrong i don't see wild baby beardies with rulers runing around measuring there prey saying nar thats too big,nar thats to small, hell yeah thats the prefect size. My beardie is 5 months old 8 inches long weighs 47grams head space of 1 and half cm and she is knocking down 2cm crickets with ease. Bearded dragons have teeth for a reason, they should chew there food not swallow it whole with one bite. But i'll let people make up there own mind, I know what Safira loves and is happy with i'm not changing her to something that she dislikes eg tiles she wouldn't move,eat and was starting to get bloated cause she wouldn't poo. I had her on tiles for a week and she wasn't showing signs of getting any better so i switch back to what she loves.

I think this post was well thought out and informative Dragonowner1. Its nice to hear some insight from someone who lives in wild bearded dragon territory and has had a chance to observe them in their natural habitat. I am currently using newspaper for my 3 m/o bearded in its 40 gal enclosure, but I am considering sand or slate tile for the larger custom enclosure I will be building it. I am probably going to go with mostly tile, with a sand section for burrowing etc, but I am still thinking about it. As far as calcium sand goes I have only ever heard opinions, but it would be nice to know if any documented research had been done. I choose not to use Calcium Sand for a number of reasons. The authors of both Barron's Reptile Keeper's Guides: Bearded Dragons and The Bearded Dragon Manual- from the experts at Advanced Vivarium Systems each "exclusively" use sand claiming no problems with impaction. I try and stay clear of this debate but I really liked your post.

 

[sarahb]

I think when it all comes down to on how your beardie reacts to it really. If you think about it, everything can be hazardous to your beardie because they are wild animals. I actually don't use sand at all. I use tile that I had left in my garage of course I cleaned it. I had enough to fit in my cage almost perfectly. Reo doesn't seem to mind it all. She liked the sand too (which I may do the half and half like alot of people) But I also sometimes use this brown paper to put at the bottom of her cage. So I guess it's really up to the owner.

 

[Lk4sturns]

DragonOwner1:Really nice job.I have used Sand for over 30 years with lizard's and snakes and all lived there expected life span or alot longer.Remember some creatures (lizard's,dog's,peolpe,etc..) do some strange or wrong thing's.Some do thing's that kill them most time buy eating wrong thing and or to much.Sister had dog and from puppy he would eat rock's (any size could fit) and almost kill self couple times when young,think would learned but still would try as adult could never take your eyes off him.Point is some will try eat Plant's,log's,liner's,sand,etc..If yours acts petty normal and take care in feeding and cleaning(I try get every speck of poo-yes pain) calc. sand I think fine,if not need to adjust to it.This is my first Beardie about year and half old(got from someone at 9 month,very sick-doing great now) and don't like sand for other reason.As it got healthy and use to me taking out it sometimes runs around and makes dust cloud's (using Vit. calc. sand)and can not be good to breath in close area(even heard eyes).Everything is covered in dust and pain to clean lamp,etc. every week.Also did not like way it shed from sand,everything seemed so dyed out brittle being covered in dust,ended up giving 2 warm bath's day cause seemed more uncomfortable shedding this time.For other it may be different and fine.I am going to try Tile,going over weekend with friend who know's Tile guy.Said has alot cut and broken and just extra that can get cheap and some for free.
Read here alot use slate but believe maybe porous type rock,not sure if o.k. or is ceramic better choice(there also marble,granit,etc. but costly).
Bye,

 

[RedInkAus]

Hi i live in beardy country we have plenty of wild bearded dragons around and i can tell you all the ground is not hard pack down like rock. look at pictures below, This is outside in my yard no its not soil its what the ground around this area is covered in. I've been bush walking and the dirt/sand is the same out there as it is here in my yard. In some other parts of australia where they are also found may be on hard packed ground but there not in my town. And to say every wild dragon dies of impaction is just wrong i want to see proof of this do they actually autopsy every wild dragon they find. Ever heard of animals eatting roughage to help in digestion, dogs do it,birds,elephants,rodents,even dinosaurs when they were alive. If they were actually eatting the sand non stop well then its bad but licking at it here and there will not do any damage it passes out when they poo if its very fine sand. To mention my sand is hard packed down like rock so my beardie can only lick at the very fine grains if there is any and it passes out when she poos. If sand is eatting bad why not paper cause if the paper moves a beardy will take a bite out of it. My dog ate paper once took her a week to poo it out and when she did she was crook for a day or 2. I also believe a sorten amount of bacteria is good for them as it helps in building there imune system up. Why do you think doctors say let your kids play in mud,dirt etc to build there imune systems up. Too say that sand has abestos in it is also wrong as there not allowed to use abestos anymore in nothing. I think you are all contradicting yourselfs you say that beardies live on hard packed clay in the wild,then you say that wild beardies die of impaction. If they live on hard packed clay none of them would die of impaction then as there is no loose sand. Also to say that you should feed only prey size that fits betweeen there eyes is also wrong i don't see wild baby beardies with rulers runing around measuring there prey saying nar thats too big,nar thats to small, hell yeah thats the prefect size. My beardie is 5 months old 8 inches long weighs 47grams head space of 1 and half cm and she is knocking down 2cm crickets with ease. Bearded dragons have teeth for a reason, they should chew there food not swallow it whole with one bite. But i'll let people make up there own mind, I know what Safira loves and is happy with i'm not changing her to something that she dislikes eg tiles she wouldn't move,eat and was starting to get bloated cause she wouldn't poo. I had her on tiles for a week and she wasn't showing signs of getting any better so i switch back to what she loves. Here are the pictures.

G'day mate,

Wherebouts are you? I'm from Melb, good to have another aussie here.

Cheers,

 

[mgtorrice]

thanks everyone for all of the help:]
i have nothing against sand except for i thought tiles would be easier to clean haha
and they are petty easy. yes i went with tiles and im happpy!
but not saying sand is bad, i have no problem with eitherr
but thanksss to all of you who helped me make my descion! mooshuu loves them

 

[mamba]

hi everyone i really dont reccomend sand at all i use to own a female bearded dragon who died from impaction!!!!! i used sand till she pushed her intestines out of her vent from pushing so hard,she did this 5 times,look at my posts im telling someone what happened to her,sand is bad man stay away is all i can say.

 

[DragonOwner1]

hi everyone i really dont reccomend sand at all i use to own a female bearded dragon who died from impaction!!!!! i used sand till she pushed her intestines out of her vent from pushing so hard,she did this 5 times,look at my posts im telling someone what happened to her,sand is bad man stay away is all i can say.

I've talked to many breeders of bearded dragons here in australia, They all believe if a beardy does get impaction from sand its not the sand at fault its the husbandry the person is giving the dragon. They believe the dragon is missing something in the husbandry which is causing the sand not to pass through the dragon. They also said if you worry to much over humidity in the enclosure you could also do damage to the dragon. If the enclosure has lots of condensation then theres a problem but if its dry and the dragon is eatting,pooing,active,alert,basking etc theres no need to worry. Out in the wild every morning you will see droplets of water on the plants the ground is damp. You will also find that they bask in the morning and when it gets too hot they move into a bush away from the sun then come back out when they get too cold. I live in beardy country and in the summer temps are in the 38 degrees celsius with some days reaching 46 degrees celsius. Like i said before if a bearded dragon sits there eatting sand non stop well then i would reccomend it being taken off. But i would also advise them to go over there husbandry aswell. But everyone has there own opinions, I'm going by what works with my bearded dragon and what she is happier with. I know plenty of people who use sand for beardies,geckos,monitors,other dragons and lizards and they haven't had a single problem. You get the odd person that doesn't know how to use sand or properly set it up then you see problems. I know i'm going to get flamed over this post but this is my opinion along with breeders who have been breeding for 50 years.

 

[RedInkAus]

G'day Dragonowner1,

I'm with you when it comes to using sand and i totally agree sand itself is not the major cause of impaction. The problem is the yanks can not get "our" sand over there. I know people say sand is sand but it aint (oils aint oils lol), the closest thing they have is playsand (basically river sand). Now you and i know that sand isn't their natural substrate but like i said it's the closest thing they have. Sand as a substrate is a touchy and heated subject on forums, believe me I'm on enough states based forums. I use sand but never advocate it plainly for the reason above their sand is not the same as ours. Some people have even gone on out there to tell me that the sand I'm using is bad for them WTF, I'm one of the few people on forums that can get their natural substrate and it's bad for them lol??? I have even had a heated discussion with a fellow aussie none the less about "tiles being the closest thing to outback soil", a fellow aussie was telling me that lol. Where do i find tiles laying in the middle of the outback?

The sand we have as you would know has high contents of red dust/clay in it, play sand does'nt. That's why ours bakes hard and cakes all over the ground after being wet and dried. This is the reason why even though i mention to people that i use sand i still try and stir them away from it (unless it's a fellow aussie of course). If you look around in pet shops or even gardening or concrete suppliers you could get that yellow mallee sand. That stuff is even better than the red dune sand as it cakes harder, last time i had that in my tank before i switch (due to lack of suppliers) my dragons actually prefered it. That stuff compacts hard like concrete and they can burrow to their hearts content. I actually had to use a paint scraper to get it all out from the bottom of the enclosure when i switched it out.

Still have'nt told me wherebouts you are lol?

Cheers,

 

[DragonOwner1]

G'day Dragonowner1,

I'm with you when it comes to using sand and i totally agree sand itself is not the major cause of impaction. The problem is the yanks can not get "our" sand over there. I know people say sand is sand but it aint (oils aint oils lol), the closest thing they have is playsand (basically river sand). Now you and i know that sand isn't their natural substrate but like i said it's the closest thing they have. Sand as a substrate is a touchy and heated subject on forums, believe me I'm on enough states based forums. I use sand but never advocate it plainly for the reason above their sand is not the same as ours. Some people have even gone on out there to tell me that the sand I'm using is bad for them WTF, I'm one of the few people on forums that can get their natural substrate and it's bad for them lol??? I have even had a heated discussion with a fellow aussie none the less about "tiles being the closest thing to outback soil", a fellow aussie was telling me that lol. Where do i find tiles laying in the middle of the outback?

The sand we have as you would know has high contents of red dust/clay in it, play sand does'nt. That's why ours bakes hard and cakes all over the ground after being wet and dried. This is the reason why even though i mention to people that i use sand i still try and stir them away from it (unless it's a fellow aussie of course). If you look around in pet shops or even gardening or concrete suppliers you could get that yellow mallee sand. That stuff is even better than the red dune sand as it cakes harder, last time i had that in my tank before i switch (due to lack of suppliers) my dragons actually prefered it. That stuff compacts hard like concrete and they can burrow to their hearts content. I actually had to use a paint scraper to get it all out from the bottom of the enclosure when i switched it out.

Still have'nt told me wherebouts you are lol?

Cheers,

True there sand will not be the same as ours here in australia thats probably why its best if they use tiles etc. My sand is the same a pain in the butt to get out having to use a paint scraper or a egg lifter with some force to get it out. I'm in Mildura victoria near the nsw border.

 

[neecie]

For anyone wanting a "poo" in the bath.................just wait, it'll come. We do it almost every day, and if I can't, then Paper towels in the far end get the "dump". In the bath is the best -- and remember they are getting the hydration of water during that time. Be patient!!