Twitching Beardie

[illzoni]

Dang, I wish my first post weren't for a problem...

Current condition
Escape is currenly laying on his tummy with his rear legs splayed backwards. He's somewhat trembling a bit just about all over.

Background
My daughter's teacher has been giving away young Beardies to students and my daughter brought one home yesterday. His name is Escape (should be an accent on the 'e').

Escape had actually escaped the classroom and lived outdoors for 3 weeks last month. Hence his name. Her teacher has been breeding and raising BDs for several years. But my daughter says he feeds them mealworms almost exclusively.

Anyway, I got a decent aquarium (size listed below) and set it up yesterday. Should've paid better attention to the basking bulb I bought (details below). The physical layout seems good with an elevated basking platform made of ceramic tiles (brown) at one end about 8 inches below the basking bulb. The basking area is atop a cardboard box (temporary) with an end cut off. Inside are two more tiles. Under the tank, under the box, is an undertank heater. Haven't measure temp, but comparing to the basking area it's not much more than 70 or 75F--just warm to the touch.

Recent activities
He came home yesterday and was in the tank for a few hours with nothing but the flourescent light while we shopped for supplies.
Once we had his tank setup as desribed and got the basking temp up, we fed him about 10 medium crickets which he ate pretty quickly. We made sure to give him another 3 hours of basking light before turning it off for the night.
I didn't observe him this morning, but I'm afraid my daughter put way too many crickets in the viv with him (this evening we cleaned it out and there were 19 still hiding in various places!) when she turned on his basking light for the day.
When I got home from work he didn't seem right. Daughter said he had spit out a cricket and it was still there. Some crickets were in with him and he wasn't interested. I figured he was just full., but he was laying with his rear legs splayed backwards and trembling a bit. Took him from his basking spot and put him on the lower/bottom of the tank and he shortly scrambled back to the basking spot. However, he wasn't using his rear legs as he should...kind of scrambling on his rear knees and pulling with his front legs.
Did some reading here and elsewhere and started getting pretty concerned.
We bathed him for quite a while, replacing the water three times to keep the temp up were it should be. He seemed to enjoy it. Stroked his right side a bit. Initially seemed to have a hard spot near his right rear leg and he didn't like me touching it, but it went away. Still no BM.
After cleaning his tank out (removing those crickets) and letting the basking area get back up into the 90s, I laid him on it. He pretty much didn't move. Just laid there with his legs just kinda hanging to the sides, somewhat trembling. If he were human I'd say his breathing seems a bit labored.
The basking light is now off for the night. The cool side of the tank will probably get into the high 60s tonight. I left him inside the cardboard box, guessing the temp there will stay in the 70s.

Questionaire
How old is your dragon? Born early Sep 08; about 10 weeks
How long have you had your dragon? Brought him home 20 Nov 08
How long is your dragon? 8 inches
What is the sex of your dragon? male
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 36”w X 18” h X 18”d
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? Shelf padding
Do you use UVB lights? Currently no.
Do have ESU Reptile ™ Super UV Daylight, ~18inches
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb?
How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
Do you use a separate basking bulb? Yes
What kind and what is the wattage? 100w Zoo Med Repti Basking Spot Lamp (UVA)
What are the basking temps? Tops out at 111F
What is the cool side temp? Tops out in low 80sF, down to about 68F in early morning
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? Acu-Rite I/O Wired Thermometer
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? Probe sits on the tile
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? Small heat pad under tank. Taped to underside of glass, the layer of cardboard, then thick tile. Doesn’t get warm…just there in case it gets too cool at night.
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. So far, just medium crickets.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? Not yet.
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? No.
Do you bath your dragon? How often? First time this evening for about 30 minutes. Four cycles of warm water.
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? Not yet.
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? No, solo.
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? No.

 

[haleygirl272]

Ok, it seems you do not have a UVB and he hasn't been under one in a while after his escape. He is probably suffering from calcium deficiency(sp?)

He can't be in good health due to lack of care for the 3 weeks he escaped. He may also have an impaction. So, what you need to do is go to the store and buy a UVB light. You need to buy a tube that stretches all the way across the tank.

 

[illzoni]

Escape had a BM during the night. He's no longer twitching, but he's not using his rear legs. He's more alert than he was a bedtime last night, but not up to normal. I'll be buying the UVB today.

 

[peera]

Make sure it's a tube and not a compact/coil! The ReptiSun 10.0 is the optimal one you're looking for, but at pet stores it can be quite pricey ($50). If he wasn't already doing so poorly, I'd recomend ordering it off of http://www.petmountain.com ($20). Perhaps you can pick it up for full price today, order it off the aforementioned website, and return it once the ordered one reaches you? A bad bulb can be even worse for his health than no light at all.

Your daughter's teacher ought to be ashamed of himself! Dragons are not a pet to be foisted off on the unprepared! If he had more babies than he knew what to do with, he should learn what causes that! Grr.

Oh, and pick him up some collard greens while you're out too. They need veggies even though they can be a bit snotty about eating them. http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html To encourage more BM's , try putting some organic, sugar free applesauce on his nose for him to eat. "Medium crickets", unfortunatly, is not very helpful because every pet store has a different idea what that is. If he's only 10 weeks, he probably needs the smallest ones you can find. My baby won't eat the smallest ones from the pet store even though technically they're small enough for her (smaller than the space between the eyes), so I have to order them offline. I use http://www.lllreptiles.com.

 

[haleygirl272]

peera sed it! Petstores give u either WAAAAAY 2 big or waaaaay too small

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Great you are taking measures to improve his setup.
The main reasons that he has most likely lost functions in his back legs is that if he was partially impacted, it pressed on his spine & sometimes it can take awhile for the nerves to begin to function properly. However, if he has already gone to the bathroom, then he should be on the mend pretty soon.
Also, when they become hypocalcemic due to improper UVB exposure & calcium absorption, it makes it more difficult for them to go to the bathroom. The GI tract works on smooth muscle contractions & calcium is responsible for the action potential of the smooth muscle contractions.
I really think that he will greatly improve for you when you get the better light as suggested, the Reptisun 10 flourescent tube bulb.
The crickets need to be smaller than the space between the eyes, to safely avoid impaction issues. I would possibly feed soft foods only for a few days, to ensure that all of the impaction has passed. Try using sugar free applesauce, pumpkin & squash babyfood & you can add some chicken babyfood too for some protein to help him out. If his stools are returning to normal for several days in a row, then he can safely go back to crickets.

Let us know how Escape is doing.

Tracie

 

[illzoni]

Thanks for the advice.

Today we got an 18inch Reptisun 10.0 (ugh...$47.99). :shock:

We also mixed a bit of vegetable oil with organic applesauce and a bit of calcium powder (with D3). He was quite enthusiastic about eating it. Couldn't find an eye dropper. He nearly took the baby spoon out of my hand the first few bites!!! And GOOD NEWS.. ...while eating he started using his rear legs!!! That was all earlier this afternoon.

My daughter just finished giving him a bath. He really seems to like them...both the warm water and the human contact.

We also bought collard greens while out. How should I prepare them? Chopped into small pieces? Or let him bite off from a larger piece?

Just so I'm clear...
He gets the basking lamp and UVB until about 10pm (that's a normal 14 hour schedule), right? Then he'll get them again starting at 8am.

Thx again,
Jon

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jon,

OH NO, where did you buy the Reptisun light? Next time, order it from http://www.petmountain.com It will be much cheaper for you.
Oh that is awesome that he began using his back legs so quickly. I am so happy for you & for him. It normally takes a little longer than that.
Keep working with him, & he will continue to improve for you. I am sure that he loves ALL of the extra attention he is getting. Now, he will get spoiled. I would continue with the soft foods & you can give a few crickets too, just to see how he does. So he was eating from a plastic spoon, oh, now he has YOU trained! :lol: At least he was enthusiastic about eating too.
If he wants to chew off of a large leaf of collards, that is fine, or you can chop them up finely that way.
I am very pleased with this update, that is great.

Tracie

 

[haleygirl272]

YAY!!!! BABY IS OK!!!!!!! :lol:

 

[illzoni]

Well, Escape seems fine. He didn't have a BM yesterday, but did today. He's not eating as much as I'd like, but I guess I'm just new to all of this.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement!

 

[CrimsonFairy]

The one thing Id warn you about is the heating pad you have under the tank. Bearded dragons sense heat from the top of their heads, not their stomachs, so if it gets too hot he could burn himself.

 

[Tarr]

you dont HAVE to get the UVB tube to raise a healthy beardy... i live in oregon where temperature is avg
45/30 (day/night).

lighting for me

1 hard case supports 3 bulbs
25w uvb coil
25w night glow
25w day glow

extra heat lamp
40w night glow (on all the time)

he is above the average height for his age and shows no signs of any conditions.
only problem he has is he isn't happy during his shedding time

 

[illzoni]

The one thing Id warn you about is the heating pad you have under the tank. Bearded dragons sense heat from the top of their heads, not their stomachs, so if it gets too hot he could burn himself.

Thanks for the warning.

I've read the same elsewhere and am confident the heater isn't too warm/hot. It's under the tank, then a layer of cardboard, then a layer of tile. It's warm to the touch--I'm guessing mid 70s.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Tarr, Yes, you do need either a flourescent tube UVB or a mercury vapor bulb to make sure your dragon is healthy. If you use coils or compacts for long periods of time, your dragon will eventually succumb to metabolic bone disease or have other health problems, long term. They are terrible lights to use & we do not recommend their use. Your dragon is not getting adequate UVB emissions.

How is your dragon doing today is he enjoying his new light?
How is his appetite?

Tracie