the tough love approach

[catUK]

Hi my beardie is 15 months old and hasn't ate salad since she was 8 months. She is a little on the larger side so i was advised by a few people on here to try the tough love approach of stopping her live food so that she would eat her salad. she is 18inches and now weight 510g- she has lost 20g since i took away her live feeders a week ago. I know she can afford to lose a little bit weight, however, after a week she still has not ate any salad Has anyone used the tough love approach and do you think she will eventually eat her salad?- i was advised to try this for 2 weeks and it's been hard as i feel sorry for her. Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks.

 

[MissT]

Have you tried adding different things to the salad? I used to get the pure mango purée from the baby aisle in tesco, water it down and drizzle it on the salads. I also added different flavours of juice, colourful fruits and veggies etc. I had good success with butternut squash and raspberries although I think the mango purée was the one that made them realise salad =yummy

 

[catUK]

Have you tried adding different things to the salad? I used to get the pure mango purée from the baby aisle in tesco, water it down and drizzle it on the salads. I also added different flavours of juice, colourful fruits and veggies etc. I had good success with butternut squash and raspberries although I think the mango purée was the one that made them realise salad =yummy

thanks 4 the reply. I've tried all sorts but she wont touch anything- she wont even try anything new. I've mixed in babyfood, tried bee pollen, different fruits and veg etc- still no luck. I've even gone as far as squashing up worms to mix in but nothing. I was hoping with this tough love she would eventually start eating it but i'm giving up hope! She went through a stage when she was younger of eating it and trying new things then lost interest and i'm baffled as to why

 

[Gail]

We had another member on here a few years back who had a especially stubborn dragon and it took her over 2 weeks of tough love to get him on greens. He lost a bit of weight too but in the end he was better off.

I would start forcing greens/veggies in her mouth. Get really stiff veggies like sliced squash, green beans, bell pepper and collards. Cut then into thin strips and wiggle them between her lips. Hopefully that will help her understand that she can eat veggies/greens. The collards might be a bit harder to force but if you use a piece of leaf with a bigger vein you should be able to do it.

 

[MissT]

Have you tried handfeeding?
When kazi was younger I had to literally throw his salad all around his viv and he would go aroud 'cleaning' it up. After a few months he started throwig it around himself and then going after it. Now, I just leave it in little piles around his viv in the hope he will follow the little piles to his salad bowl!

 

[catUK]

We had another member on here a few years back who had a especially stubborn dragon and it took her over 2 weeks of tough love to get him on greens. He lost a bit of weight too but in the end he was better off.

I would start forcing greens/veggies in her mouth. Get really stiff veggies like sliced squash, green beans, bell pepper and collards. Cut then into thin strips and wiggle them between her lips. Hopefully that will help her understand that she can eat veggies/greens. The collards might be a bit harder to force but if you use a piece of leaf with a bigger vein you should be able to do it.

Thanks- i have put a few in the side of her mouth and she'll eat them without spitting them out- i was worried doing this too often will give her a fear of the salad. she sure is stubborn.

Have you tried handfeeding?
When kazi was younger I had to literally throw his salad all around his viv and he would go aroud 'cleaning' it up. After a few months he started throwig it around himself and then going after it. Now, I just leave it in little piles around his viv in the hope he will follow the little piles to his salad bowl!

yeah thats the main way she will eat through handfeeding. Might try throwing the salad about and see if that works. When i put her salad in she'll have a good look at it but no tasting. Thanks for the help

 

[ziggy23]

I know it's tough, but it's better in the long run. Did you read about Rocky the rescue? It was estimated that he hadn't eaten in 4 MONTHS. And he probably wasn't that healthy before they started starving him. It takes a healthy dragon a long time to starve to death. Their bodies were designed to withstand food shortages, that's why they're so chubby. Just keep in mind the long term consequences of too much protein and fat as adults.

I have observed in reptiles and other animals that the memory of the last 2 weeks is the strongest, after that things start to fade. So every change needs to be given at least 2 weeks.

My salad making tips:

Make the salad colorful, 2, 3 colors at least. Color is exciting and mouthwatering for them. Take advantage of it. For the time being don't worry too much about stuff being a labeled occasional, or staple. If she's not eating anything, it doesn't matter that the salads aren't balanced because her diet is already not balanced. When it comes to fruit, freeze it and chop it up into very small pieces, then you can make it look like there's a lot more then there actually is. 1/4 of a strawberry or can easily coat the top of a salad for them. And when it's in tiny pieces it thaws within minutes of the heat in the tanks. Also good for those dragons that like crunchy things.

As soon as you find ONE thing she likes, jump on it. Doesn't matter if it's a fruit, go with it. You can sometimes trick them into trying something new by going with a similar color or shape. If they like raspberries, try strawberries and blackberries. Once you find things she will eat, make salads with a lot of that and add a little bit of staples. Once that gets accepted, gradually increase the greens and decrease the treats. If necessarily, throw it in a blender or food processor and chop it so finely that they can't pick and choose and gradually make it bigger.

I'm not opposed to forcing a bite in their mouths. Sometimes all it takes is just one taste to open their eyes to all the yummies they're missing out on. Just don't do it too much, you don't want to be creating another habit you're going to have to break.

After eating salads on her own for at least 2 weeks (even if it isn't a balanced salad yet), then I would start introducing a few feeders. Just a few, and if she stops eating the salad for them, then you immediately take away again. One ignored salad and they're gone. Turn the feeders into a treat, a reward for good behavior. If she ate her salad that day, for dinner she can have a couple worms.

It can take months to straighten out a bad diet, but it can be done and it really is in their best interest.

 

[catUK]

Thanks ziggy23, thats really helpful. At the minute i've got spring greens, carrot, endive, red and yellow pepper in her salad and add the odd fruit. I'm mixing it up frequently to see if she'll try anything but nothing yet. I really hate doing this but know you are all right that it'll be better for her in the long run. My last vet visit showed she was healthy, good bone density etc so hopefully her bad diet hasn't done any harm as of yet. I am at a loss as to why she wont try things- she used to try new things all the time when she was little- she once went crazy over banana and got attached to my finger, now she wont even look at it, just closes her eyes when i offer her something! When i do put some into her mouth she chews quite greedily so i'm hoping she's enjoying, although i might be grasping at straws with her and clinging onto hope I wish things were straight forward, she's a complete diva.

So should i keep on with not giving live food until she eats salad, even if it takes weeks? How will i know if cutting out her food is harming her?

Thanks again

 

[Carnivorouszoo]

Have you tried putting live worms under the salad? Mine is slamming her salad because I have reptiworms and dubias moving around under the salad. She goes into hunt mode and chows the moving salad. to get to the feeders.

 

[ziggy23]

So should i keep on with not giving live food until she eats salad, even if it takes weeks? How will i know if cutting out her food is harming her?

Thanks again

In humans, it takes a huge amount of willpower (think buddhist monk) and/or mental illness to purposely starve yourself to the point of harm. The brain has safeguards to prevent this. A primitive part of the brain takes over and pretty much eliminates choice. That's why people will eat anything when they are truly starving. You cease to care, better explanation the part that cares what you eat gets shut off, you are fighting for your survival.

Our brains are more evolved versions of animal brains. We have the brain power to excuse long term harmful behaviors that we do to ourselves, but still can often not when it comes to immediate harm. Animals do not have the reasoning skills we do, and their brains are more primitive. Their survival instinct is probably stronger than ours.

So it's highly unlikely that she'll starve herself. I don't think I've ever heard of a case of a healthy animal ever doing that.

But if you start to get concerned, post pictures here and ask. You know we're all just a post away. If necessary, do some force feeding. 20g might seem like a lot of weight now, but to give you some perspective, Astarte lost nearly 60grams when she laid her first clutch. It took only a week or two to gain it all back.

 

[catUK]

Have you tried putting live worms under the salad? Mine is slamming her salad because I have reptiworms and dubias moving around under the salad. She goes into hunt mode and chows the moving salad. to get to the feeders.

Yeah i've tried everything under the sun, including squashing worms in with the salad to no avail. Thanks for the idea though


Ziggy23, thanks for that insight. I know how quick she puts on weight and she could do with losing a few grams so i suppose i shouldn't worry about that. I put salad all around her viv today with different varieties in each bowl- still nothing, she's a monkey! Thanks for the offer of support, much appreciated

 

[MissT]

Try one bowl with the salad kind of hap-hazzardly strewn around. Put some right in front of her nose and see if that helps... Also try slipping some greens into her mouth.

 

[catUK]

Try one bowl with the salad kind of hap-hazzardly strewn around. Put some right in front of her nose and see if that helps... Also try slipping some greens into her mouth.

Thanks. i have spent most of the night trying to encourage her to eat the salad- dropping it on floor, putting it infront of her, wavting it about.... I got her some mango and banana baby food to mix in- she ate a bit off the spoon happily but as soon as i dipped a leaf into it she turned away and tried to hide- she is beyond stubborn. I also put some in her mouth which after a fight i managed and she ate, its a wonder she didn't get her angry colours on bless her. I'm trying but she is one tough and determined beardie :shock:

 

[MissT]

Hmm maybe try orrering the baby food and as soon as she opens her mouth pop some greens in there. Out of curiosity what greens are you using?

 

[catUK]

Hmm maybe try orrering the baby food and as soon as she opens her mouth pop some greens in there. Out of curiosity what greens are you using?

I tried but she's got iron jaws and snaps them shut lol. I sometimes try and pop something in if she's gaping but i think she's learnt my tricks. I use spring greens and endive as staple at the moment and have been mixing in the occasional red and yellow peppers, mint, basil, watercress, carrot, grapes, apple etc. I've always provided a variety since she was little to keep it interesting but she just doesn't seem to care. She was fed curly kale when she was younger before i bought her from the pet shop and at first when i got her then i found out that it binds calcium so i stopped giving her it. Thanks for all your advice, sorry that your great suggestions don't work on her :!: