Surgery Scheduled for Tomorrow

[parodyofagirl]

I thought I had been more active on these forums, but I guess I just lurked a lot when Quincy was younger.

Quincy is a 6 year old bearded dragon. She is my little buddy and we haven't spent a day apart since my fiance bought her.

She has surgery scheduled tomorrow to remove a growth from her mouth and I am really freaking out about the whole thing.

She lives in a tall and skinny 55 gal enclosure. We take her out and let her run around for exercise. She has two ceramic heat emitters on top of her enclosure and I have a heating pad underneath. I turn the heating pad on intermittently throughout the day and it stays on for about 45 minutes at a time. It is unplugged at night.
Her UVB bulb is an 18" reptiglo 10.0 tube that I changed yesterday. We live in Florida and when the weather is nice, I take her out on the back porch with me for 15-45 minutes of natural sunlight.

Her substrate is newspaper.

Her diet has been mostly Repti-Boost for months. She stopped eating greens years ago, and she has been having mouth problems that have prevented her from wanting to eat her normal food like butternut squash, crickets, and mealworms. Whenever she has lost her appetite, I have syringe fed her food and water. She has had many episodes over the years where I would syringe feed her for a few weeks and then she would return to eating her normal diet.

As of right now, I am not supplementing with any additional vitamins or calcium. She is eating between 6-12ml of reptiboost (the last few days she has been eating 12ml) mixed with water, a little bit of baby food and pumpkin and she has been drinking 3-5ml water from a syringe daily.

I have been spraying her enclosure regularly and giving her daily baths to try and keep her hydrated. The growth has prevented her from closing her mouth and she seems to appreciate the baths in addition to the water.

I thought that her problems started about 6 weeks ago, but when I started looking through pictures, she may have originally injured her mouth as early as late September. Quincy took a flying leap off of the couch and landed beard-first on the ground. When I took her outside a little later, I noticed a small swollen area at the back of her mouth when she was gaping. Because she has had intermittent swelling in areas of her mouth (her teeth aren't the best or the cleanest) throughout her life, we weren't really concerned. Usually, she'd get a swollen area, it would swell up, she would chew on it, and it would heal. All she needed was a little additional TLC for a couple of weeks, and she was fine.

This time, the swelling would get a little better, then she would chew on it vigorously and it would get a lot worse. It would heal up quite a bit, and she'd chew it up again. A couple of weeks ago, she irritated everything so much that it began to protrude from her mouth. We are poor, but we pulled the money together for a vet trip and took her earlier this week.

She was given a shot of Baytril. The vet thinks she has an infection, but it is 'secondary.' He kept saying that whatever it is, it is 'an unusual presentation.' While he didn't come right out and say it to me, he thinks the growth is cancer and not just irritated tissue from her chewing on her mouth. She has surgery scheduled for tomorrow.

I am having serious second thoughts. I want to do what is best for her, but my gut feeling is that surgery isn't the best option for her right now. Until this past week, she hadn't been eating as much as usual (most likely because she was bored with the repti-boost) and she had lost some weight. I started adding pumpkin and baby food to the repti-boost and she doubled the amount of food she has been consuming. Because they are going to be doing surgery on her mouth, I know she isn't going to want to eat. I really want to get her to a healthier weight before surgery. I feel like her chances at recovery would be better than her current weight.

Over the past few days, since the antibiotic shot and the addition of the pumpkin and baby food to her repti-boost, she has been so much more active. She zips around the house and zig-zags across the floor like I haven't seen her do in years. Aside from being in pain after eating, or after she chews on her mouth she seems her happy, cheeky self.

I guess more than anything, I am really freaked out because they want to operate on her two days before Christmas. We are too poor to afford a car. I will be alone, in the house, taking care of my baby post-surgery and if something goes wrong I will have no way to get her emergency treatment. If something goes wrong on Christmas, I don't think anyone will be able to help us at all and this terrifies me.

Right now, I am leaning towards rescheduling her surgery. My fiance feels the same way and he would prefer to be here when it happens. He wants to get her another antibiotic shot tomorrow and give her some more time to gain a little more weight. The vet specified that the shots are better for beardies because it bypasses their intestinal tract and allows them to keep their good gut bacteria. So far, her bowel movements have been completely normal.

Does anyone know if there is a way to perform a biopsy without taking the whole mass? Maybe just the bit that is protruding from her mouth and preventing it from closing?

Has anyone here had a beardie recover from oral surgery?

Has anyone had a beardie that was fully cured after removal of a tumor if the vet obtained clear margins?

Are there any anti-inflammatories that work in bearded dragons and don't damage liver/kidneys?

Could severe stomatitis in any way resemble an oral carcinoma in a bearded dragon?

Is there anything I can put on her mouth to protect the bit that is protruding? Part of the reason it keeps swelling is because it dries out.

If necessary, I took some pictures that I can put in another post.

I have written a couple of posts on reddit about Quincy, and Mary encouraged me to post here. I can link my reddit posts if anyone thinks it would be helpful.

 

[Derobmi]

Hey,

I think adding the pics would be helpful. This post explains how to do it.

I understand your main concern right now is her mouth issue. However, it sounds like you don't have a bright white basking bulb in her tank, though. If that is true, it could be the cause of her swollen eyes. Do you have any incandescent light bulbs around the house? Or a halogen bulb? You could swap out one of the CHEs with one of those. The beardie's pupils constrict from the bright light and it prevents too much UVB from entering the eye, which can cause damage.

I'm sure someone will come along soon who can advise you about her mouth issues.

Mary

 

[parodyofagirl]

I do have an incadescent bulb in her enclosure. I'm sorry I forgot to mention it.


Yesterday before she pulled the scab off
http://imgur.com/kZYpHOC

Yesterday after she pulled the scab off.
http://imgur.com/e3BUvwU

Earlier this afternoon, she took a brief break from trying to get to the anoles out in front of the house.  She black beards at the larger males when they body bob.  The eye closest to the camera is going to shed.
http://imgur.com/o6CiZ24

 

[Damieboo]

Yes, those eyes look very swollen...Hopefully adding a white basking light will help!

I will say that bearded dragons are very hardy creatures and can recover from very serious injuries. Mine had tail rot a couple months ago that had traveled up half her tail and was threatening to get into her blood stream. I'm more inclined to believe she beat the infection herself because I was told by the same vet who prescribed me 2 antifungal/biotics to stop treating her with them and her tail more or less reverted back to its normal healthy shape and color (minus the tip that fell off). The tip of her tail was an open wound, and I mean open as in you could see bits of bone and muscle (so sorry for the gruesome details!!) but she couldn't care less and happily ran around my apartment during all this. So it's up to you if you want to reschedule the surgery, I mean if it's not causing her too much distress at the moment and you think you'll be able to raise her weight some more in a few weeks, by all means reschedule. But keep in mind, they're fighters, and I'm sure your beardie will be fine.

Good luck!

 

[parodyofagirl]

Thank you.

It is causing her some distress. Some of the eye bugging is because she is in pain. Some is because she is shedding the area around her left eye.

The vet thinks it might also be due to an upper respiratory infection.

Her eyes have been swollen to some extent for approximately the last 4 years. It never seemed to bother her. They are usually not as swollen as they look right now.

I don't think she is going to fight this off on her own. If she was going to, she would have already.

She is watching Top Gear, all happy-yellow, and sitting on my chest. She loves watching cars.

 

[Damieboo]

Oh, sorry! I wasn't insinuating that she could beat the growth by herself, I just mean most beardies recover after surgeries that are sometimes far more invasive than removing the growth on her lip. Not eating might pose a problem since her mouth will be tender after the surgery, but I've followed tons of threads on this website about similar surgeries and all beardies lived to tell the tail! (pun intended hehe)

As long as she keeps eating leading up to her surgery, I think she'll do just fine. Since she's already familiar with syringe feeding, it shouldn't be too difficult to get some food and water in her after the surgery. She's a cute beardie!

 

[parodyofagirl]

I just finished feeding her. She can't have any food after 30mins from now an i only allowed a tiny bit of water. She has actually eaten more in the past few days since I started adding baby food. The vet said she would be okay as long as she didn't lose any weight between her visit last week and tomorrow. She feels and looks like she has actually put a little weight on which would be great!

She is a funny quirky smart dragon. She responds to certain words by changing her colors.

I'm so worried about tomorrow. I keep crying. I know she needs the surgery but I really wish there was another way.

 

[Derobmi]

Are you still doing the surgery today? I think your concerns with the holiday are valid - I'd be uncomfortable with that as well.

How are you transporting her to and from the surgery? If it is chilly out, you can use some chemical hand warmers (not sure if they sell those in Florida?) and wrap a towel around them so they don't get too hot right against her skin. My vet had made a hot water bottle out of a vinyl glove and warm water that I used the same way for transporting my beardie home after surgery. I used a cat carrier for the actual transport and I'd fashioned a board out of a few pieces of corrugated cardboard that I then wrapped fleece around. That is how I moved my beardie from carrier to tank to table for feedings, etc. so that I wasn't moving his body much at all. I'm not sure if that is a concern with an oral surgery or not.

It's awfully hard to let the vet take your beardie away for surgery. I'll be thinking of you both today.

Mary

 

[parodyofagirl]

Just a quick update. We decided to go through with her surgery. It will happen around lunchtime and she should be good to come home around 3-4pm.

The vet was happy to see that the antibiotics seemed to be working and the growth seemed less inflamed and ulcerated.

He mentioned that he has performed oral surgery regularly, but never on a bearded dragon. Neither I nor my fiance trust people easily. My fiance listened in over the phone and agreed with the vet and decided that we should do the surgery today. I really hope we made the right decision. The vet is confident in his abilities and assessment.

We're keeping our fingers crossed that he gets clear margins and there is no involvement with her jawbone.

I am going to the store to get her more reptaboost. When I get home, I will be disinfecting her enclosure and everything in it. I also need to make her a new hide box. Today is going to be a long day.

 

[Derobmi]

Good luck with the surgery!

I've made hides out of cardboard boxes before successfully.

I've never used Reptaboost and I'm not familiar with its benefits vs Critical Care's. When you are at the vet's, you might ask about Oxbow Critical Care for herbivores to see if it is a better option. Your vet should be able to tell you. That's what I fed my sick beardie for several months. If you get it, the fine grind formula is easier to feed from a 1ml syringe. The regular grind works fine with a 3ml and bigger oral syringe.

Let us know how he's doing after the surgery. You might want to use one of your CHEs to keep the temperature up overnight to 80F as that can assist her immune system. You can ask the vet about that, too, while you are there.

I'm sorry, I know today is going to be really hard for you and you are going to be alone.

 

[parodyofagirl]

Thank you for thinking about us Mary.

It is a nice warm day out today in Central Florida. I still packed her a warm rice sock and placed it under the towel in the bottom of her box.

I have the chemical hand warmers for when it is actually cold here (i ride my bike everywhere) but the ones I have are cheap, disposable, and don't heat evenly. I have always been concerned she would either rip it open or get burned if I used one.

I worry a lot. She'd probably be just fine with one.

 

[parodyofagirl]

I have not heard about the Oxbow Critical Care until very recently. Is this a prescription food? How much does it cost?

I started buying ReptiBoost from the petstore when Quincy was refusing to eat because her she had a swollen area in her mouth between her tongue and teeth about 18 months ago.

It isn't the best thing for her to have regularly in place of food. It is high in fat. I mix it with pureed pumpkin, organic baby food (chicken or turkey with sweet potatoes, butternut squash, rice), and smartwater or spring water. She doesn't like our tap water (even when it is filtered) so she also only gets sprayed with bottled water.

She is also weird about food texture. How would you describe the oxbow critical care? The reptiboost is mostly a smoothish wet pasty supplement. There are some larger pieces that haven't been ground as finely as the rest and she'll work those out of her mouth with her tongue and deposit them on her snout.

 

[Derobmi]

Originally, I got the Critical Care from my vet, but then discovered cheaper options. You can order it on Amazon, too. Beardeddragon.co sells it for a good price, although the shipping can take a bit longer from there. I don't normally pay for any expedited shipping, so I'm basing that on the cheapest options.

I think the critical care would be better than what you are feeding. It is a powder (more or less) and you mix it with water to the desired consistency. I normally made mine somewhat liquidy - definitely not a paste - it would run down the side of Desmond's mouth.

I would stop using Smartwater. Too many vitamins can be a bad thing, particularly vitamin A if it isn't in the beta carotene form. I'm also unsure of the baby food with rice. I've always heard to use baby food chicken and/or squash in these situations.

The best water to use is a bottled spring water. Distilled water is good, too, but it lacks the minerals spring water has. Interestingly, I was just reading in a vet book that softened water can cause harm because it has a higher sodium content, but I've only just read that and haven't read anything else about it. Tap water can have too much fluoride, so if you are giving a lot of water orally, as you are, it is best to stick to the spring water.

 

[parodyofagirl]

Smartwater is vapor distilled water that has a teeny bit of added electrolytes. It doesn't have any added vitamins. The 'rice' i mentioned was one of the ingredients in the pureed baby food. I wasn't looking at the jar at the time, but it is actually brown rice flour. The baby food i have been mixing with her repta boost is earth's best organic sweet potato and chicken dinner.

I looked for the ox bow critical care when I was at petco and they didn't have it. I'll ask the vet about it when I pick Quincy up in a few hours.

I'm going to cool down, then I'm cleaning her enclosure and making a new hide box. All I could think the whole way home on my bike was how much Quincy would enjoy the sun if she could be outside today.

 

[parodyofagirl]

Qunicy is out of surgery and in recovery.

Two masses were removed, one on the outside and one on the inside of her jaw.

He is pretty sure he got clear margins, but there was not enough healthy tissue to completely close the wound. She didn't bleed as much as he thought she would and I can pick her up after 4pm but I won't be able to make it until 5:30.

He is concerned about her bulging eyes but due to the length of time she has had this problem, it isn't a primary concern. He thinks it is a vascular condition. She may have an aneurism or a slow bleed. It is unrelated to the problem with her mouth.

Not the way I was hoping things would go.