Sick beardie - not sure what the problem is

[AHBD]

Hi Gabbie......first of all, they really are adorable ! I didn't read all the threads, but the first one and then the last few. I would definitely not do any type of treatment for a broken jaw, it doesn't look broken and the things the vet mentioned would cause further discomfort in her situation. So has the vet diagnosed this as definite Y.fungus ? The wound on her belly is really serious.....and it has gotten that bad even after using the antifungal meds ? If that's the case, they aren't working. You might try unpasteurized honey on it, like from a health food store not a grocery store....it must be unpasteurized....Walmart may sell Manuka honey, and Tracie [ Drache] sells it as well. You can thin it out with a small amount of warm water, then put it on semi thick and wrap her back up. I think whatever you try will be a last ditch effort....it would be very fortunate if she can recover....I hate to say it, I hope for the best but be ready for the worst. Keep in mind that fungal infections are highly contagious to your other dragon. Bathing will spread it, so keep her out of water and just give her oral hydration. You're really showing alot of dedication to your baby, and you have all my best wishes.!

 

[Gab122]

Hi Tracie and AHBD and all

Tracie:

Goodness. The wound is pretty red. The vet wants you to put anti-fungal cream on it? You haven't been putting anything on it right now, correct? When did you stop using the silver cream?

It actually looks more golden brown (Amber?) in person. Not really red. I had not put any cream on the chest wound since the last scab fell off jan 27 - almost 2 weeks ago. I stopped using the silver cream at that time. I put a little anti-fungal cream on the wound tonight tho... I'm not sure what to do. 2nd vet tested in office and said wound is not fungal. Third vet told me it looks fungal and to put ANtifungal cream on it.

She thought it was fungal too? I am pretty sure it is since the topical cream & voriconazole is working.

I think the topical cream and voriconazole is working on the other "spots" on Hermie. I was not putting any AF cream on her wound tho (til tonight)
Shd I put Honey or AF cream on it or nothing except a bandage?

Scab has stayed on almost two weeks while not using any topical creams. Just using bandage.

I think the wound still needs to be covered. How long has the scab stayed on now?

Almost 2 weeks. I do cover it w/ bandage about 50% of the time.

There is a scab on it now? It is pretty reddish.

Yes there is a scab. Yay!!
It's pretty hard and thick in my opinion.
It's not really red in person.

How long has her skin looked whitish like that, you are sure it isn't pre-shed?

I think it's been like that a couple weeks at most. I think it could be pre-shed And thickened AF cream. I tried a bath today w/ chlorhexidine and tried to scrape some of the white off her leg. It's b/n her scales tho. The bath softened it a bit. I got a bit off.

Shd I soak her more to help w/ shed? Risk losing scab?

Are you putting anything on her body, cream, etc that could make it look like this? I certainly hope it isn't fungus on her entire back. It is hard to tell but the hand looks like pre-shed coloring.

I don't think it's fungal. I think it's mostly skin in need of a shed. I do put AF cream on some areas.

How long has her beard looked this way?

A couple weeks.

As far as the calcium, which one are you giving again? Since her jaw is broken, that syringe feeding needle will help greatly! Are you giving calcium 5 days per week? You could add D3 a few days to help with bone healing.

I have Flukers calcium phosphorus. I was not adding any to the carnivore care because I thought it was complete. She has not eaten anything really except carn care since oct I think. So I have not added calc but was thinking she got enough in the carn care. I rarely would sprinkle a bit in. If I shd add calc to carn care, how much do I add? She eats maybe 1/2 teaspoon carn care daily. She is 42 grams now.
Thank you for all your help Tracie!!!!

-------
From AHBD

So has the vet diagnosed this as definite Y.fungus ?

A spot on her back was tested for yellow fungus and was positive. The wound on her chest was tested for fungus and it was negative.

The wound on her belly is really serious.....and it has gotten that bad even after using the antifungal meds ? If that's the case, they aren't working.

I tried all diff things on her chest wound but not one thing consistently since I don't know what is causing the wound I don't know how to treat it. I mostly just used silver cream - but for almost two weeks now I have not put any topical med on the chest wound. Just a bandage.

You might try unpasteurized honey on it, like from a health food store not a grocery store....it must be unpasteurized....

is raw honey the same as unpasteurized? I found this locally :

I actually think she's going to make it. I could be wrong but that's my gut instinct.

Thx!!
Gab

 

[Gab122]

I noticed for the 2nd time that Hermie was sleeping at night with her head off the hammock. (So she wasn't basking) I think she can't lie on her jaw. . As if it was too painful.

This isn't the best picture and you may not be able to tell from it (it was taken in darkness w/flash.) but she's slightly got her head raised off the hammock where she's lieing.

I'm wondering if her jaw could be in too much pain to rest her head?

It breaks my heart.

What do you think? I don't want her to suffer. She doesn't act like she's suffering but I'm wondering if she is.


Gab

 

[AHBD]

O.K.,I got a lot of the background info from your replies to Tracies as well. I can see why you would be confused as to what to use on the wound. As for that honey, as long as there is nothing at all added, it's just whipped raw [ yes, unpasteurized ] honey. I've never used that type but I guess it would be the same. If you want to see actual clinical evidence of how well it works, Google " honey for wound care, myth or science part 2 e-vet" There are very graphic photos of horrific wounds cleared up by a vet using raw honey, with explanations. Anyway, I certainly am pulling for your baby no matter what you use. I like to recommend honey because it not only can keep bacteria from growing, but as you'll see from the pictures it also promotes growth of new tissue. I just hope that big wound is not fungal....can't imagine how it developed. It really looks like a burn. And again, the baths can spread fungus....I'm not sure how the chlorhexidine factors in to kill the fungus or if you'll still have the chance of spreading it. I think [ and hope ] the whitish areas on her body is just skin going towards a shed.

 

[Gab122]

Not a great morning. Better afternoon. I noticed a bump on hermies chin... Under "broken teeth" sort of. Some pics show bump better than others.











Gab

 

[Drache613]

Hello Gabrielle,

Hm, the bump could just be some swelling from the jaw injury & teeth issues. Is it broken or just fractured?
I hope she isn't in too much pain either. Her beard doesn't turn black does it?
Which honey are you using now, the unpasteurized honey or the manuka honey? I think that they should work in the same manner/fashion.
Definitely keep the scab on with the dressing. It should hopefully begin to heal if you can keep the scab on long enough with the dressing & honey on it. I agree, it is antibacterial/antimicrobial & helps promote healing.
After doing research about the silver sulfadiazine, that may have really prevented a lot of healing due to the sulfa base. It should begin healing now without you using that now.
I think it is shedding also, how is the white areas looking?

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

 

[Gab122]

A little update... Hermie's "hanging in there" pretty well. Her scab is still on! I think the blackish spots on her belly, chin and mouth area are all improving a bit... Those spots I cover with topical Antifungal cream (except mouth gets honey) and she gets voriconazole orally. The chest wound has the scab but I imagine it must be healing beneath that area. I put raw unpasteurized honey on that area and cover it w/a bandage.

I took a stool sample to the local vet today to get a count on the coccidia. I shd hear back tomorrow.

I looked in her mouth and the teeth do appear to be refastening themselves back in place!?! I still feel like there are some missing in the front tho?? I bought feeding nipples that go over the syringe and I find that to be the safest way to feed her as she can bite down on it without harming her teeth.

I gave her a longer soak the other day and used an old tooth brush to gently scrub her back and tail a bit. Some of the white stuff came off like shed but in the tiniest pieces.

All in all she seems to be doing pretty good considering all. She even was posing "sexy legs" today which I haven't seen her do in forever.

Gnight all!
Will update again soon
Gab

 

[Drache613]

Hello Gabrielle,

That is terrific her scab is staying on & you have been able to put the honey on it with a dressing, too.
She did a sexy leg pose also?
I am glad to hear the other darker spots are starting to improve finally! It does take awhile for it to start working.
So it looks like the teeth are healing into the gumline now? That is great news. I am sure that is starting to feel better for her also. The syringe with the feeding nipple is great for her.
Those should work just right for her so she can't hurt herself.
I hope the coccidia levels have come down some for her. She is really hanging in there, I completely agree. Keep us posted on her.
So she is starting a shed now?

Tracie

 

[Gab122]

Hi All,
Just a little update. Hermie's doing pretty well. She started shedding on her arms/hands/legs/feet! It's a thicker than usual shed. Prob because it's been so long since she shed! Hopefully her back and the tip of her tail will follow suit.

Here she is yesterday

Her scab is still on although one side did separate a bit a few days ago but it has since resealed and is still attached. It has obvious layers to the scab. I'm not sure what to make of that. I think the spots on her belly are improving.

I noticed a strange spot on her lip a couple days ago. I'm not sure what it's from. I know I scratched off what I thought was dried food in that area recently but I didn't see this when I did that. My other thought is that when I was using the "monoject" feeding tool ~ before switching to the rubber nipples, perhaps she thrashed against it? She did start doing that before I switched and it's pretty solid metal.

I've been using raw honey on it - not sure yet if it's working.

I had been told at the "odd pet vet" that Hermie had coccidia still but they could give me a count. That was a week ago. So I took a stool sample to the local vet and it came back clear!?! I'm thinking of bringing another sample to a 3rd vet as I don't know how it could go from "many" parasites to none w/in a week. I haven't given her albon in about 3 weeks and haven't given toltrizural paste in about 10 days.

Nammer is 110 grams now and doing great!

That's all I can think of.
Gnight.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Gabrielle,

Are you keeping the scab area a little moist & covered both? That is great it is staying on. It probably feels a lot better than just being raw.
So her coccidia was clear this last time? That is wonderful news but does seem fast. You could get another one done somewhere else to double check. How is her appetite doing? She is definitely going to shed which is very good! I hope she doesn't have any trouble with the thicker skin.
Is her mouth healing up now? I hope she didn't hurt it on the metal any! The areas on the chin just look like thick shed skin, hopefully it will slough off soon.
I think the black spots are improving. Is Hermies doing ok on the voriconazole still, any side effects that you can see or have noticed?
Nammer is looking good, I am glad he hit the 100 gram mark now, finally! I bet he is eating a lot, too.

Keep us posted on them.
Tracie

 

[Gab122]

Hi All,
Yes Nammer is eating us out of house and home! I weighed her again yesterday... 120!!
Now that she chases crickets around she isn't interested in greens much or phoenix worms. :roll:

Hermie seems to be doing pretty good... Her arms/legs stopped shedding before she was finished... I just ordered some zilla shed-ease as well as a zoo med 24" T5 HO lamp and hood. Now that they are in separate enclosures (both are 36x18x18) instead of a divided single enclosure I think they need more light than just the power sun.

I noticed a shed crack on hermie's back and rubbed the area with the pad of my finger... voila! beautiful citrus colors! I"m hoping she continues to shed her back and arms/legs etc.

areas that don't seem to continue w/ shed or haven't started but need to....

Her chest scab is still on though it has many layers to it and is pretty thick. (here's a side view to show thickness)
close up first:

Here's a front view - please disregard the food dripping down her chin. :lol:
The white stuff is anti-fungal cream. To answer your question Tracie, I had been putting nothing on the wound except the gauze. No ointment, cream or honey. That's when the scab stopped falling off... when it was dry. Based on your last post I figured that was wrong so I've been alternately using raw honey and anti-fungal cream. I have also been giving diluted chlorohexadine baths again to help with the shedding. The scab does seem to detach at the edge and then reform. I think that is what is causing the layer look to the scab. I fear that if I continue w/ applying a topical treatment as well as a bandage and bath the scab will fall off again. but I fear that if the scab continues to add layers it will become too thick and affect her ability to inhale (expand) chest. ??? what should I do??

her mouth seems to be healing...

I haven't brought a new specimen to lab yet re: coccydia but will do that this week.

Tracie, do you know how much calcium I should add to Hermie's carnivore care? how often? what about multivitamins? How much how often?

Boy am I tired of snow.... :roll: enough is enough!

thanks for your care and advice!
Gabrielle

 

[Esther19]

Gabrielle, I am just in awe of your ability to hold it together with all of poor Hermie's problems! I'm afraid I would be a basket case. Her shed area is just gorgeous! One of these days she will be better and look that way all over. I'm sorry I can't answer your questions, but Tracie will be along to help.
Keep up the awesome work! Hermie is a lucky girl to have you. :love5:

 

[Drache613]

Hello Gabrielle,

Hermie is looking really good & finally shedding, too!
As for the scab, I do think you should keep the edges moist but, not wet. It will help the healing process. Has it shown any indication of just falling off on its own, or not?
Does it seem to be affecting her breathing ability? I hate for it to rip off before the new skin layers underneath have started healing. I think the best thing right now is to continue what you are doing to let it heal & next time you are at the vets they may want to view it. It should fall off when it is ready.
I feel you are going in the right direction with that. Just keep it covered as you are doing now. It has to feel better than having raw skin being exposed all of the time.
That is terrific Nammer is eating so much now! Great news.
So you are going to be using the Reptisun 10 T5 HO tube bulb for each one of them now?

Keep us posted on them both.

Tracie

 

[AHBD]

That little dragon is a trooper for sure, and so are you ! What a mess for you to have to deal with. I still think that the honey will help, it just may take a while because of the severity of that wound. I guess like Tracie said, keep alternating the honey and antifungal cream......I think that's what she meant ? Anyway, I hope she can get through this, keep up the good work !

 

[Gab122]

Craziest thing today! After she took a drink from her water dish... I wanted to encourage the shed so I put her in the sink to soak (94 degrees) and she wanted none of it!! She just started making noises and looking at me and trying to get out. So I took her out, took off her bandage (cuz it was wet) and put her in her viv. She continued to make noises like she was talking to me?!? I had my phone so I video taped her. Later I found out that beardies don't have vocal cords! What's going on?!!
Here are 3 short videos (less than a min)

https://vimeo.com/119889742
https://vimeo.com/119889743
https://vimeo.com/119889744

What is she doing??! She doesn't appear in distress to me but I'm not sure I guess. Is it respiratory? I did notice that there was a bubble by her nose when I took her out of the sink. Also sometimes - esp after drinking- it's like she has mucous like saliva. ??

Esther and AHBD, thx so much for your encouragement! I do feel a little worn down by her woes at times. And often confused about how to best care for her.

Tracie, thx so much for your faithful help! It's been a long journey! To answer some questions, no, the scab isn't ready to fall off. When I've sen the raw wound at the edge of the scab, it's not much better underneath I'm afraid. . I don't think her breathing is affected by the scab thankfully.

I am planning on using both a t5ho bulb and a power sun in each tank. Too much?
Thx for your help!!!
Gab