Sealant Issues

[DoubleJ]

Hi all, I have almost finished my 1st attempt at fake rock just got to paint it and seal it. I have acrylic paints, no problems there, but I am not sure about the sealant. I have pva glue (i live in the uk) as i havent seen or heard of modge podge over here. Is diluted pva ok to use in a beardie viv? And how many layers should i put on to be sure it wont look too worn too soon.

Thanks all

 

[kyhomegrwn]

This is probably way more information than you care for, and I am certainly no expert, but as I have spent countless hours researching the very premise of your post, I was compelled to speak up here for the very first time. I am a geologist and spend part of my time cleaning up the nasty nasty messes we humans leave behind, and spend the other part playing in the mud. I am acutely aware of the unbelievably toxic constituents we allow to be used in our every day breathing space. When I started making plans to build Girlfriend's viv, considering she is a desert dweller and that she requires such high temperatures, factoring in that I love her more than many people I know , and capping it off with my knowledge of solvents, I was determined to give her the most toxic-free environment she deserves.

To address your query about PVA or wood glue, I think it is a really good product and I used it to reinforce the joints of my viv. However, as a "sealant" it is only water-resistant and that is a stretch and I don't believe it will hold up over time. There are stronger, more porous resistant types of wood glue, but these contain antimicrobial chemicals that I would definitely steer clear of. Liquid Nails, which is advocated by many people who have had plenty success is petroleum based and I would never use because I see on a daily basis what petroleum does to living things, in less than desert temperatures. I have tried to find the chemical components of Mod Podge, and have come up empty. The only information I can find is that there are no harmful chemicals. I think it is a good product for the use in question, but since you can't get it, let's scratch it off the list.

When researching stains, paints and sealants for the viv I came across "low VoC" products here in the US. Most of these are a sham. Because we have such weak regulation here (Europe and Canada have much more sensible regulation of constituents like ammonia) and because I am educated on the additives used in these so called "green products" I had to dig deep to find the products I would use. Please know that paints, stains and sealants that are advertised as "green" commonly contain formaldehyde, ammonia, heavy metals and acetone, just to name a few nasties. These poisons, under heat, offgas for years and years. I know you may think I am crazy but sprinkle some ammonia in your viv, provide 100 degree heat, and hang out and see how pleasant the experience is!!!

I fell in love with AFM Safecoat products, they use the innocuous propylene glycol instead of the commonly used, poisonous additive ethylene glycol. Their sealant will actually seal in offgassing from plywood glues, paints or any other noxious materials. It is made in the USA but here is their site http://www.afmsafecoat.com/about_us.html. Since you are in the UK I tried to research some equivalent products and found Ecos. From what I can ascertain, they are good people, and here is their international link http://www.ecos.me.uk/

Sorry for the diatribe, I am clearly impassioned about the subject. My viv has turned out "well" considering it is my first wood-working project and I applied the first coat of sealant on my faux rocks this weekend. From what I have read, five coats is appropriate. If PVA turns out to be your choice, I believe it to be the least toxic, if not the most resistant, and I would second that any day. Good luck from a fellow lover of dragons!

Dani

 

[DoubleJ]

Wow! Thank you so much for that information, you really know your stuff. I shall be referring back to it often I think. For the moment I am going to use my pva and use plenty of coats. It is only my first attempt so I am not too worried about it lasting a long time as I have caught the bug and intend to play a bit more with fake rock making I am already envisioning improvements I could make. I shall probably need to go and get a huge viv to fit in all my ideas Basil will be one spoiled Beardie. I used watered down acrylic paints for the colour and am justing waiting for them to dry thoroughly before sealing. Having looked at the site you recommended I am very impressed, never having come across sites like that before. Come pay day I shall be investing in their products and starting on another project Might even rope the kids into helping out (I am generally terrible at sharing as I love to do these things myself). Thank you once again for the info Dani, much appreciated.

Jo

 

[The-Piranha]

Hi Jo, Like you when i first made a faux rock i went on a hunt in the UK for products that would be safe. Dani's post is great and well worth looking into and i would consider using Dani's advice in my next build. But in the UK the choice of products is not as extensive as the US so at the time I ended up using PVA. When checking it out i went for the child’s version of PVA in my build, I found that this to be the safest at the time. I applied 2 heavy watered down coats over the grout and paint and since then one new coat per year which have always been brushed on. Spike has lived in his rock viv now for just over 2 years without any adverse effects and is a healthy happy chappy.

 

[DoubleJ]

Hi there!

i have discovered a slight flaw in my faux rock. I did a few coats of watered down pva and let everything dry thoroughly. However, I misted Basil while he was on the rock and found that the pva came up. As soon as the moisture had evaporated the pva dried up and there was no tackiness. Could you tell me why this happened? I have made lots of papier mache things (homeschool kids ) using pva and have never come across this. I have no intention of leaving the rock in there if it is in any way harmful to my lil man.

 

[The-Piranha]

If when wet the PVA is becoming active i wouldn’t leave it in either.

Sounds to me like maybe you have used a grout which is non-porous or your paints used to colour it have sealed the grout. So the PVA is not being absorbed into the grout, instead it’s just sitting on the top as a thin film which then once wet would become tacky again. But without knowing what you have used i can’t really say... But i am sure someone will know.

 

[DoubleJ]

Hmm yes that makes sense. I used sanded grout and then acrylic paints on top of it before adding the pva to the top. Maybe the paints sealed the grout? Wud it be safe to use acrylic paints but no pva sealant? Not sure if acrylics would make it waterproof or not.

 

[The-Piranha]

Well sanded grout is porous and water based paints shouldn’t / wouldn’t make it water resistant; this is what you use the PVA for to seal the faux rock after it has been crafted and coloured to make it water resistant. I personally used paint and PVA for children as they have higher standards and fewer toxins due to their use by children. A good way to check would be to clean off the offening pva let it dry and then splash some water on it.. See if the water puddles or if it is absorbed and how quickly it is absorbed

My gut reaction says it’s something in the grout but my logic says it would have to be the paint or the paint would suffer the same problem.

 

[DoubleJ]

Good Idea. I think I may give that a go. Not quite sure why it has turned out this way though, it's quite frustrating

 

[RULDS2]

I have had the same problem so far with two different fake rock projects. The first I followed the DIY videos to a T... grout, watered down acrylic paint, then watered down Mod Podge. When wet, the Mod Podge becomes white again until dry. For the next project I decided that Mod Podge may not be the right choice and used Min Wax Polycrylic. I had the same problem. When my beardie ran through his water dish or defecated or anything else that got the surface wet it turned white again until dry. I don't know what to use. If it is the acrylic paint that is sealing the grout from absorbing the Mod Podge why do so many people apparently use it successfully? To all of you DIYers that have had success, what are we doing wrong???

 

[DoubleJ]

i would love an answer to this. I havent tried water on paints yet. I thought I would see if the acrylics were waterproof in themselves, but would love someone to tell us why our pva/hodgepodge isnt working as it should