Running out of options, need some serious advice

[Menolly]

Hi Tracie,
I use the 100 watt in his cage.
His appetite is good with veggies, but he doesn't want to eat worms at all unless it's been three days between feelings. He might eat a few if he feels like it. Thyroid issues? What died that mean? Is there some way I can regulate that with something?
His colors are good most of the day. For the longest time they have been black even when going to sleep, now he's got good colors even in his cage. I am also getting him outside everyday now that it's consistently warm at least for a half an hour.
The doctor is supposed to call me on minday so I can ask him if they do the EKG at their office.
The only thing that worries me is he doesn't run around at all and he hasn't for a while now. Other than that, his energy levels appear good.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jane,

You can try feeding kelp, organic if possible, a couple of times per week to help bring up thyroid function.
Thyroid function could be affected diet, genetics, the environment, etc. Do you know if your water if fluoridated or not or do you use filtered water?
Just be sure he gets a variety of greens to help. Which vitamin/mineral supplement are you using?
How close is the 100watt MVB bulb to him?
That is ok if he doesn't want a lot of protein since he is an adult. On average, adults only need roughly 40-50 or so feeders weekly, along with greens & veggies to maintain weight.
At least his colors are good & he doesn't have a black beard like he did previously. He must be feeling better if his beard isn't black now. Does he become more active when he is outside?
Let me know what the vet says about the EKG.

Tracie

 

[Menolly]

Hey Tracie,
Where can I get kelp?
Umm I'm not sure to be honest. I've been using filtered water for the last year. Before that I'm not sure if it had fluoride.
I use the zoo med one, but it's hard giving it to him consistently since he hasn't been eating his veggies regularly until recently.
It's about 15 inches away from him. He said that they could do one and that he would be talking to their cardiologist and talk to me on Wednesday. He says that he didn't think it was necessary since it usually isn't a heart problem.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jane,

Well, the EKG was just a suggestion, to be sure there is nothing wrong with the heart to rule out that possibility. You are going to get it done on wednesday?
You should be able to get kelp at the local health food store or online.
The zoomed are a mix of vitamins & calcium correct?
I still think it could be a nutritional or thyroid type of issue, as there are not too many other options which would cause water retention. Did they discuss possible use of diuretics to help with the water retention?

Let me know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[Menolly]

Hi Tracie,
I understand that, I was just reporting back what the vet said. He's definitely not my favorite, but he's the closest I've got unfortunately. No, the vet said that he would talk with the cardiologist about it on Wednesday and talk to me about the options for doing it on Wednesday because the cardiologist would only be in on Wednesday.
Yes that is correct, both are zoo-med. They were just much cheaper then the other brand by a decent amount of money, is either really better than the other because if so I don't mind spending the extra money at this point.
No he didn't mention anything about diuretics, what is that?

He was okay today, he was doing some gaping. However he started that as soon as I started running the dehumidifier. Now I'm only running it at night. I had to move the cage from outside my room to in the living room of my apartment due to an ant problem and the humidity is much higher out here for some reason. Once I turned that off, he hasn't gaped since. I'm waiting to see how he does tomorrow, but I think it was due to the dehumidifier, at least I'm hoping. Otherwise he was decent, he seems a little more active today then he has been in a while. Nothing major, but he was moving around some today.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jane,

I think he is doing a great job. There aren't many vets that know much about reptiles. At least he keeps trying different things & hasn't given up.
The EKG may not show anything, but at least it would rule it out. I can't think of anything else other than genetics, etc to cause water retention. I wish we could figure it all out soon.
The Reptisun 10 is just fine on the lighting.
Diuretics just reduce the amount of water in the body so may help with water retention around the heart. You can ask him about that.
So he was gaping with the dehumidifier going but stopped when you turned it off?
Let me know how things go.

Tracie

 

[jarich]

Would you be able to post his blood test results?

 

[Menolly]

Hi Tracie,
I do too, I guess I'm just frustrated and I'm probably just projecting onto him.
I called the vet today, he didn't get back to me about the EKG. I'm going to try again tomorrow and see what he also has to say about the diuretics. He hasn't gaped at all today, so I'm going to assume it was just due to the dehumidifier.
He seemed okay today, a little tired but he was a little more active in his cage today.

Would you be able to post his blood test results?

I could, but they were done in March, I don't know how accurate or helpful they would be at this point.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jane,

Well, that is good he didn't gape any today!
Maybe it was the humidifier that was causing the gaping.
He seemed more active in his tank today? Poor guy, I really hope that he gets better soon. I know it is hard on you both. It can be very frustrating trying to figure things out like this. I wish I could help more!

Let me know if you speak to the vet.

Tracie

 

[diamc]

Sounds like he has improved a little, that's great. We're all routing for him.

 

[jarich]

It sounds sort of like an allergic reaction, but Ive never heard of such a thing in a lizard before. The combination of things like gaping/breathing distress, fluid around the heart, etc also seems similar to what happens in birds when they eat avocado, or amphibians exposed to high levels of ammonia, so Im wondering if something its eating or being exposed to environmentally isnt causing this.

Not that people normally do, but have you kept a record of what you are feeding on a day to day basis? It may help to see what you are feeding the day of, or before, the days when he doesnt gape as much versus when he does.

 

[Menolly]

Hi everyone,
I really couldn't think of anything else because it hasn't been on since and the only time he gapes now is when I know he is gaping because he is hot. He does it when we've been outside for a few hours of sitting in the sun.
He is sometimes more active and other days he isn't. He has two more shots and I'm not sure where we go from there. I'm supposed to talk to the doctor tomorrow about how he is doing. I heard from him on Friday about the EKG. He said that the cardiologist feels comfortable doing one on a bearded dragon, but it doesn't sound like he/she has before so I'm weighing the benefits of that.
His appetite seems to be improving some, he actually ate a few worms after a little prompting! Not gunna lie, I was super excited even if coaxing was involved.

Sounds like he has improved a little, that's great. We're all routing for him.

Thank you very much! It's really the support of this website that has really helped me to keep positive about everything.

It sounds sort of like an allergic reaction, but Ive never heard of such a thing in a lizard before. The combination of things like gaping/breathing distress, fluid around the heart, etc also seems similar to what happens in birds when they eat avocado, or amphibians exposed to high levels of ammonia, so Im wondering if something its eating or being exposed to environmentally isnt causing this.

Not that people normally do, but have you kept a record of what you are feeding on a day to day basis? It may help to see what you are feeding the day of, or before, the days when he doesnt gape as much versus when he does.

The thing is he has been having these problems since January. He wasn't introduced to anything new that I can think of. I order worms from the same two places online now that the local pet shop has closed. That's a little new, but that started more in March when he was already sick for two months. Other than that, he eats a lot of collard greens mixed with the occasional fruits and other veggies that he's always had before. The only thing environmentally was that I had ants in April and they did spray. However where they sprayed is nowhere near his cage. Honestly, I don't mess much with his food. I only change up the staples according to the seasons, but he's always had it before.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jane,

Fantastic! That is great news he actually ate a few worms for you!
So he seems to be doing better now? That is normal for him to gape if he reaches optimal temperatures, he will gape to cool off.
That is interesting, a vet would actually be willing to do an EKG? That's a hard call since he hasn't done one on a bearded dragon. What are you going to do?

I am glad that he has made a little bit of progress.

Tracie

 

[Menolly]

Hi Tracie,
I'm not sure. He has a cardiologist, but from the way he was talking the cardiologist had never done an EKG for a bearded dragon before. I wanted to clarify with him today, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet to check in with how things are going.
When he's outside he seems to be almost normal with attention levels and alertness. Once he gets inside though, sometimes he's a little sleepy. I get him outside at least a half an hour a day minimum which really seems to help. He has good colors when he's outside.
I'm going to have to get another ultrasound to see how much fluid he has around his heart after being on this round of medication. I think it might come down to those results because I'd rather not put him through more tests, especially with someone who hasn't done one before.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jane,

So he acts pretty normal when he is outside? That is so odd. Does he seem happy in his tank?
I know your tank should be bright enough!
I can't blame you for not wanting to put him through more tests. He has been through enough already.
Are his colors better outside than inside?
When is he done with this round of medication?
I really hope he is feeling better!

Tracie