Running out of options, need some serious advice

[Menolly]

Hi Tracie,
He didn't wake up and gape again !!
It's nice to see. H ehas been a little dehydrated with the medicine, even with baths but he seems to be doing better because he yesterday was the last day to take it. We have another vet appointment tomorrow where we will be checking in and seeing whether or not to get the ultrasound. I think I'm leaning toward it because he has been on medication before and has stopped gaping. I think we just might get it for peace of mind at this point and to make sure that it's nothing serious.
We were able to get outside yesterday for quite a while and he loved it after he got used to being outside again.
Sometimes he doesn't mind it and others he's just like get that away from my mouth. :roll:
He's totally not spoiled in the least. Not at all. :whip: Sigh.
Thank you for checking in with us constantly, I appreciate it.

 

[Menolly]

Hey,
We got the ultrasound done and everything looked okay. He has some liquid in his abdomen and had some around his heart. I'm concerned about the fluid around his heart. What concerns does that bring about?
The vet put him on .1 cc of Baytril for a month. On Monday he wants to start back on .9 cc of Albon, and on the 22 of April he wants me to give .6 cc of Pancur. All of this seems like a lot of medication. He's having other people review the film of the heart to see what they say. He's doing the research but I'm considering a second opinion, any thoughts?

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jane,

I am happy that he is doing better now!
It does sound like the meds have helped with his breathing though. I am sure he has been a bit dehydrated but meds do tend to do that, especially albon.
Taking him outside has probably helped his demeanor as well.
Geez, I am glad you got the ultrasound done! He has fluid around the heart & some in his tummy.
He almost had pneumonia before, right? Fluid build up can happen with persistent respiratory issues, pretty easily. How much fluid in his tummy?
The panacur is for what ailment?
The Baytril sounds fine, to help with a general infection.
When are they going to review the ultrasound with others?
A second opinion definitely never hurts.
How is he doing today?

Tracie

 

[Menolly]

Hi Tracie,
He didn't say how much, but I can ask. The pancur and the Albon, he wants to make sure he gets all the parasites because I'm supposed to start the Albon on Monday.
I'm not sure, again I will check on that. He seems okay. He did gaps a little once and had a black beard poor thing, but it was a very long day. He calmed down once it was time for bed.

 

[Menolly]

He's gaping again today
I talked to the bet today and he said that there was only a small amount of fluid in the abdomen. Also in regards to the viewing of the heart, he said that should happen sometime next week. Could he have pneumonia this whole time? I feel like at this point it might not be parasites because he's gaping again, a little bit but he still is which is why I'm thinking it might not be parasites, thoughts?

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jane,

Oh no, he was gaping again today with a black beard? How long did he have a black beard for?
That is good to hear though he doesn't have much fluid in his abdomen then. I hope that he hasn't had
pneumonia all of this time, but it is possible. Sometimes when they have a respiratory infection & it doesn't initially clear up it can go into pneumonia.
When was the last time you did nebulization on him?
It isn't sounding like it is parasites, I agree. He didn't do a fecal this time, right?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[Menolly]

Hi Tracie,
He had a black beard most of the day today. I did have to move him to my parents because of issues in my apartment and he is on Baytril which he never reacts well to so it could be a few things.
Probably in February when he he was being treated for respiratory infections he got Cefazolin but that was just orally for a week.
He didn't do a fecal this time around but at the same time he did two last week and nothing showed up so that might be part of it.

He had a black beard all day and all night last night. I'm thinking of just taking him off of the baytril tomorrow. We might even have to take a trip to the vets tomorrow because he was gaping for a good 20 minutes outside of his cage. I turned the lights back on and put him in his cage, his breathing has evened out and his beard is a lot less black. So I'm going to get a ceramic heater tonight and see if that helps him sleep. I'm seriously at a loss at what this could possibly be, but I'm pretty sure its not parasites.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jane,

I don't think it's parasites, either.
If anything, it is pneumonia. I recommend trying nebulizing treatments as they don't have cilia in their lungs to help clear anything out like mammals which makes them more prone to developing pneumonia.
Keeping a ceramic heat emitter on him overnight should help out.
He isn't doing well on the Baytril, I agree. A lot don't, it is somewhat harsh on their systems.
How did things go at the vets?

Tracie

 

[Menolly]

Hey Tracie,
So I talked to the vet this morning and he still seems to think its parasites. I decided against going to the vet because its a two hour trip onle way and I just didn't want to stress him out more.
He was gaping very badly this morning to the point where we almost did but I decided to give him a bath since I noticed that he would normally gapes little while after eating. So I have him a bath and he pooped out some stuff and he hasn't gaped since. His beard is still a little black but nothing like it was, from a scale of 1 to 10, blackness was a 9 now it's a 1.5. His breathing has been regular as well. I think the Baytril just really upset his stomach for some reason. It's weird but I'm not going to question it. Any ideas as to why this happened though?

And that was true for a few hours but now he's gaping again for a while. Now he's just sitting with his mouth open vs forcing out air which seems to be a slight improvement? Maybe? I think I'm going to have to get a second opinion in Ithaca which is about four hours away. I'm just lost at this point.

 

[diamc]

Would be a good idea getting a 2nd opinion if you can.

Did you give him a probiotic when he was on the Baytril and continuing to do it now?

 

[Menolly]

I'm just worried because it would be an overnight trip. I'm thinking about just going to the vet I have here and seeing if I can't get a nebulizer at this point. I just don't know what to do. The reason he thinks it's not respiratory is because all the x rays and the ultrasound of the lungs looked good. The only thing we have to go on is the small amount if fluid around the heart and in the abdomen. The Albon did help, but the doctor said to give him a break on the meds but I'm concerned about his gaping and breathing in general. It couldn't be that much of a reaction to the Baytril could it?
He was fine with the Albon on Monday no gaping and Thursday started gaping again right after starting in the Baytril on Wednesday.
Yes, I've been giving him soy yogurt.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jane,

The only other thing I can think of it an enlarged liver which is putting some stress on his breathing, along with some fluids around his heart which is concerning. He didn't mention anything about an enlarged liver though?
There wasn't any fluids in his lungs but around them?
It sounds like he may have had a reaction to the Baytril possibly. Since he was fine on the Albon but not on the Baytril.
A nebulizer couldn't hurt at this point. I am unsure why he is gaping so much, unless something is pushing on his lungs somehow. It doesn't sound like parasites at this point.
A lung lavage could be done to see if there was any bacteria in the lungs that needed to be treated, etc. Or you could do a mouth swab which could also show if aspergillus namely was present which has a tendency to cause respiratory issues.

Tracie

 

[Menolly]

Hi Tracie,
No he said everything looked good besides the fluids in the heart and abdomen. He said the liver looked good and so did the lungs.
I can ask about both of those on Monday, what does a lung larva entail?I feel like I'm missing something but I don't know what it could be.
Thanks for keeping up with me everyday Tracie, I appreciate it more than you'll ever know.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jane,

The lung lavage, I am not sure on costs, but it is pretty technical. I would think it would run at least $150, but not positive. They run a tube down into the lung to gather fluids from that area to culture for bacteria. Or just do a mouth swab to check for aspergillus would be helpful, too.
Ok, so his liver is good, that is helpful. Really, it is the process of elimination. The liver & kidneys are good.
It could be pneumonia possibly. The fluids around the heart are worrisome though, which can affect the breathing.

How is he looking today?
What are his overall temperatures, the ambient temps in the tank?

Tracie

 

[Menolly]

Hi Tracie,
He actually slept the entire night with a white beard, and when I checked on him he wasn't struggling to breath anymore. He just sat open with his mouth today and barely forced out any air. He enjoyed being outside again today, but was a little stressed at first.
His temps are 98 to 102 basking and cool side around 80 to help him out. I'm concerned because the doctor wants to put him back on the Albon .9 ml for seven days and give him the pancur tomorrow .6 cc. I'm just not sure if I want to do that too him even though he stopped gaping after using the Albon for a week. The doctor seems to think that a certain amount of fluid around the heart is ok and has found references for that. He is currently trying to find out just how much was around the heart to get a better idea of what might be going on. I'm going to call my local vet and see if they do either or those procedures. However any fluid around the heart is worriesome I assume? He was ok the Baytril to deal with the fluid around his heart. I'm thinking its time for a second opinion, I've found several vets around the area. I'm also thinking about holding off on the Albon until I see how much he improves tomorrow because he seems to be doing better. My worry is just that he will regress again.
Thanks again Tracie!