RIP Loiosh, Sept 7/10

[sweetiepie9]

We have a foster beardie named Loiosh, that we're fostering for a year while her owner is in Japan for that time. We've had Loiosh since July 1. She went through a tough time settling in, relocation stress was quite severe. We finally thought she was starting to settle when she starting spasms that caused her body to roll with no control. We took her to our vet, who said she has low calcium levels in her blood. I've been feeding her liquid calcium daily. The vet gave her a D3 shot and a B12 shot. She continues to have the spasms. I'm able to get some babyfood into her once daily, but it also causes spasms, just from licking with her tongue. We're taking her back to the vet. It's getting very hard on her, she uses up so much energy with the spasms (which I can stop if I'm holding her), she's losing weight. I'm about to check for critical care or reptaid, as our local pet shop doesn't carry them. I'll find some, as I think she needs that, too. Poor Loiosh, she was just starting to get used to being in our home. We have 5 other dragons. Didi came with Loiosh, but had no trouble settling in the living room with our 3 males. So we have 4 tanks in the living room/dining room. Then Loiosh and our girl Sweetie are in our bedroom. It's been tight, as we moved in June, just before the two fosters were coming to live with us.

Back to Loiosh, is there anything else I can be doing for her? I hold her alot, as it stops the spasms or they don't last as long. I make sure she's breathing, as the more severe spasms lock her lungs, so it takes awhile before she's breathing again. Any other help would be so gratefully accepted. She's a great beardie, but is 6 yrs old, so I'm wondering if this is harder because she's older.

Thanks
Deb

 

[diamc]

Hello Deb, sorry to hear about Loiosh, that is so sad. It must be very hard to watch. When she spasms, does it affect her whole body? Does she literally roll around? Have the spasms gotten any better at all since the injections? Do you think that maybe wrapping her in a thick towel would help with the spasms when she is licking the baby food? Perhaps you've already tried that, but I'm just trying to think of anything to make it less stressful for her and you.

I think picking up the Critical Care formula would help her out. I hope you can find it in a local pet store.

 

[sweetiepie9]

Hi Diane,

I'll try using a towell wrapped around her for feeding. Hopefully that helps. I figure she's been staying alive since she started these spasms two Sunday's ago. I think she's doing less, but with the same strength. It starts by her body twisting about, her legs and arms go lax, the she just rolls without any control, legs and arms tucked into the side of her tummy and she goes. If I'm there to see her I pick her up, hold her tightly and the spasms stop. I'll start looking for critical care today. There are a couple of other pet shops around here I'll ask.

Have you ever seen this type of thing Diane, low calcium in the blood. Have you heard of any other ways to get this to stop? I think I'll take her to the vet end next week, as it will be two weeks since this started. At least I'm getting some babyfood into her, I'm going to try to feed her more often. I just don't want her to die...especially since she's not our beardie, but Nicole's. I've kept Nicole updated almost daily on how she's managing. That's all I can do.

Thanks for responding Diane, I'm hoping someone else has gone through this and has some ideas on how to help Loiosh.

Deb

 

[Goonie]

Oh Deb, I'm so sorry that Loiosh still isn't doing well. I had hoped that your last update on how she seemed to be improving would've been the last of hearing about her spasms
I wish I had some advice to offer. All I can tell you is that hopefully you'll be able to find some CC and it'd do wonders for her.


Is it possible for beardies to have epilepsy???

 

[sweetiepie9]

Thanks Diane and Gina. I've already sent a pm to Tracie.

I took loiosh back to our vet, who gave her another D3 shot and a shot of calcium. She also gave me "Carnivore Care" said she also had "Critical Care" but thought for Loiosh she would need more protein.

When I got home I put clean water in her dish, some 1 tsp "care" powder and water from her dish. I made it mushier than it should have been, she wouldn't have been able to get it down. she ate 2 tsp of it in 2 separate feedings and is now resting comfortably in her tank, with just a large soft towel and our puppet Orco. She likes to lie on top of it. She hasn't had a spasm since we got home. The vet also ok'd to up the liquid calcium to a.05 for a few days. I'm hoping she'll start gaining weight, her fat pads on her head are non-existant and her tail is getting too skinny. I'm allowed to feed her babyfood with the "carnivore care" tomorrow and once a week give her multi-vitamins in her food. See how she does daily. I'm so hoping she gets better. She turned a beautiful yellow today when we were at the vet, it's as if she put her prettiest colours on to let us know that she knows that we're trying to save her life. It was quite a nice moment and gave me alot of hope...
Deb

 

[beardie parents]

That's sad, I hope Loiosh gets better. I'm glad you are doing what you can to get her back to health.

 

[dEEjHaY]

Thoughts and prayers for Loiosh.

 

[fez09]

Hi Deb, How is Loiosh today?? Has she had any more spasms? I hope the Carnivore Care helps boost her strength to get through this I know that you're doing everything possible or her. Big hugs!!!

 

[sweetiepie9]

Hi Lori and Katrina, Loiosh has had a hard couple of days. I was able to get about 2 tsp of "care" into her and about 2 tsp of babyfood squash. That was last night. She slept all night without a twitch, then was awake & looking around but never tried to get up. She's also had a couple of bouts of spitting up blood from her tummy. That's only happened twice and both times she had a spasm, but came to faster and ate again. So I'm not sure how she's doing. The vet was at least able to confirm that the blood was from her stomach and not a cut in her tongue. So just pray that she gets better. Nicole is aware of what's happening, so that's a relief. It's just too bad this happened. I'm hoping all the nursing will pay off and she'll get better.

Thanks for your support,
Deb & Loiosh

I'll have pics later on our thread.

 

[beardie parents]

Deb, I can't help putting myself in Nicole's position. First she has to give her babies to another one to care for until she comes back, that's hard enough as it is, or would be for me, then she finds out her female is sick. I would be worried that she wouldn't survive until I came home. I know you are doing all you can and it seems as if she'll survive, from what you've said. It's just me that worries about my babies surviving with the luck we had with the first 4 dragons we had and lost within 2 years.

 

[sweetiepie9]

I'm taking this as a good sign, when I went to check on her, she was up on her hands looking around. I'm hoping this is a good sign...will get back to you later. Time for lunch, then feed Loiosh again and get some water down Leo, Lonzo and Rubio.

And the sun came back out, so Lonzo's outside on the garden chair in the sunshine.

Deb

 

[Monkey]

Question, has any blood work been done? I guess thats how you found out about the low calcium?

What I am wondering is, if she has a internal bleeding somewhere? can she have eaten something that caused a perforation or so? and the spasms is cause she has pain in the tummy trying to pass it and its stuck? I am not sure exactly what the vet has done I do suspect though that allt his is rules out its just questions that comes to my mind.

I really keep fingers crossed that its just like a bad bug or something and that it passes.
*hugs*

 

[diamc]

Hi Deb, I was just checking in on Loiosh. That does sound like a good sign that she was up on her hands looking around. Poor thing, she sure is going through a lot. I give you loads of credit for being so caring and loving in trying to get her straightened out, I know it is very draining for you.

Are the spasms any better? How did she do eating this afternoon/evening?

 

[sweetiepie9]

Hi Diane, Poor Loiosh, she has no strength unless she's having a spasm, and they only come on when I feed her. So far she's not having any spasms at night. It's becoming difficult to feed her so I'm making sure she has liquid clacium before I give her the "care", then if she can still lick down food, I'll give her babyfood squash, as once she starts the spasms, there's no way to feed her again for a few hours, have to give her time to rest. I have no idea if what I'm doing is helping; I thought these spasms were seizures, but the vet said they're muscle spasms, and using her tongue to eat starts the muscles to spasm. Do you know if these are part of being short of calcium in her blood? I meant to ask the vet but I don't think she's ever seen this before. I'll have to see if there's any info on the internet.

I make sure she gets some snuggles every day, so she's aware there's humans there helping her, even if it isn't her mommy. I still let Nicole know on a daily basis and I took some really nice pics that I still havn't downloaded, have to get that done.

If you know anything about this, and if there's something else I should be doing, please let me know.

Thanks,
Deb

 

[Monkey]

HEre's some things I dug up for you.

"Kale and spinach also provide calcium, but should be limited since they can interfere with thyroid hormone."
http://hubpages.com/hub/All-About-Bearded-Dragons

I would probably suggest a thyroid panel, thyroid can interfere with calcium lvls from what I understood and its an easily treated desease with a pill that you can probably put in a peice of lettuce or something. I have never heard of a beardie with thyroid issue, but weightloss can def be a sign of that. And one case has to be the first. We have after all more and more domesticated the animal and with captivity there's often slight genetic change and the deseases comes with that.

Here's more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyroid
I have no clue if its the same signs on a beardie as on a human, due to the difference in species I would say it's likely not. Hyperthyroidism increases calcium lvls in humans, and also gives an upset stomach. You have a condition where you firs thave hyper, and then hypo, which IF I understood right can drop the lvls. None the less I would suggest a panel strongly to see if that is up and down.

Less likely things but that is worth looking at:
I read this, can this be part of it? On the other hand it should be in her food. Has her kidneys and liver been checked so she is not suffering from any organ failure.

Thiamin (Vitamin B1) deficiency is caused by feeding items that contain the enzyme thiaminase rather than by feeding a thiamin deficient diet. Thiaminase breaks down the animals stored supply of thiamine. Herbivorous reptiles may acquire this disease because thiaminase is found in ferns and ornamental house plants, and by feeding large amounts of frozen vegetables. Freezing decreases vitamin levels and increases thiaminase activity. Carnivorous reptiles may acquire a deficiency because thiaminase is found in fish. Thiamine is necessary for the proper development and function of nervous tissues. A thiamine deficiency is characterized by nervous disorders such as: twitching, spasms, blindness, abnormal posture, and an inability to use specific muscle groups. In snakes, inability to accurately strike their prey can be observed. Thiamin deficiency can also lead to dystocia, egg-retention, and other reproductive disorders. These signs may also be seen with other vitamin deficiencies such as vitamin E or selenium and they may also be related to other disease processes. Treatment with a thiamine supplement usually will correct the problem. Adding a small amount of Brewer's yeast to any frozen food item prior to feeding will also help. When fish is used as a food item, make sure it is either fresh or fresh-frozen. Boiling fish prior to its being fed will denature the thiaminase.


I dont think its this one, but its a rare odd one don't hurt to bring up to the vet..
http://www.anapsid.org/adenoviruses2.html

How old is the UVB light? what if its a bad light from the store? In that case she wont be able to again absorb it and metabolise it. Just a thought. It's apperntly triggered when she's putting in an effort, is there any desease that is triggered by stress? Is there any beardie epelepsia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocalcaemia



I really keeping fingers crossed!