Respiratory Infection seems resistant to treatment

Lilith86 · Mar 24, 2015

Okay, we're going strong into the evening... :blob5:

This morning I syringe fed Aten a little bit of repta-boost with some anti-diarrhea powder mixed in. It takes a while to make it all the way down her throat, but after a little while of holding her vertically against my chest, it seems to resolve itself. I kinda feel like a parent burping their baby...
My question now, of course, is "do beardies have any throat muscles to swallow, or do they rely on gravity to do most of the work for them? How does that work when they gobble super worms or crickets down really quickly?"

Anyway, when I came home this evening, she was acting more normally. Her head is still very, very gaunt and she looks generally dehydrated and skinny, but she definitely looks like she's making something of a recovery.

This evening she had the squirts again, and I think she got only a third of the anti-diarrhea medicine this morning because I made an ambitiously large batch for her. So I mixed her a smaller evening meal ( chicken baby food) with a full dose of the medicine. Hopefully she'll be a little more stopped up tomorrow (right now she has watery poops once a day). I'll see if she's interested in food again before I go to bed.

I also gave her the second injection of antibiotic. She's coughing less now... she does it mainly after eating, even after all the food has gone down her throat... is there any way to make sure she's really not aspirating the semi-solid food? I'm spooning it onto the roof of her mouth... I guess maybe I'll have to go more slowly.

I also gave her some serious fluids. The vet recommended 3cc of lactated ringer solution twice daily until she starts being interested in food and water again. I'm not a vet, but that seems like alot of fluid to inject under the back skin of a beardie. I had to inject in two different places to get the whole amount in without stressing the skin. I feel so bad for Aten. I can't imagine that's comfortable. I just hope it absorbs quickly. Does anyone else have experience giving fluids this way?

Also, a question about cleanliness... I only have one syringe body and two needle tops for 2 weeks worth of antibiotics... I'm not expected to use the same needle on her for two weeks, am I? Won't bacteria accumulate from the skin? I'm loathe even to use the same syringe body for that long. I'm giving .13cc/ daily. I'm thinking that I should just go out and get a pack of syringes that diabetics would use, maybe from Rite-Aid or Walgreens.

Thanks for your advice, guys! And thanks for the positive vibes!!

Drache613 · Mar 24, 2015

Hello,

That is correct, you should use a fresh needle it will get dull. What size of needle are you using, an insulin sized needle?
They do tend to hold food/fluids in the beard for awhile, but it does pass through & down into the body fairly quickly. So she is swallowing & digesting better now?
Are her fat pads looking better, on top of her head?
Giving fluids under the skin can be taxing on the dragon as well as you. How much does the vet want you to give daily, 3 mls of saline?
I hope she is starting to feel better soon. Does she like the reptoboost?

Keep us posted on her.

Tracie

Lilith86 · Mar 25, 2015

Hi Tracie!

Yes, after looking at the syringe it is in ml and the vet said 3 ml twice daily until she is interested in food/ water again. Like I said, that seems like alot. I got about 4 1/2 ml in her yesterday between morning and evening injections. The needle on the antibiotic syringe looks like an insulin needle to me (it's been a few years since I've seen one... my mother's late dog used to take insulin). I was thinking of at least buying one and comparing.

I'm a little frustrated with the vet because they didn't tell me exactly what antibiotic she's on and what anti-diarrhea powder it is, and their instructions have not been the clearest. The vet did give me the name of the accepted expert in the area. I think I'm going to take Aten to him soon if she doesn't improve.

So, she seems to like the repta-boost well enough. This morning I spoon fed her again and got the full dose recommended for critical animals in her, plus another dose of diarrhea meds. We took it slow this morning, stopping halfway through to have her sit vertically on my shoulder for a while. But she gasped alot. I monitored the progress of the food down her throat, checking with a flashlight when she gaped. I would say it took about 45 seconds for everything to get down there. And she had a grey beard while eating this morning. I could swear that I saw tears in her eyes as I was feeding her this morning, though she never pulled away from the spoon feeding. She gummed it up eagerly. But she did seem to get tired.

I gave her a bath next. After about 2 minutes, she pooped, and it was hard to tell because she was in the water, but it seemed a little more solid :blob5:

She did not like the tub this morning. Black beard the whole time. I've bundled her up in a towel and she's resting on my chest as I type this. She seemed to drift peacefully off to sleep, but then she wriggled out all of a sudden and gasped dramatically, and then started to fall back to sleep. She's still gaping and coughing and trying to sleep now, full black beard. Poor baby.

What's weird is that she seems more of herself. Still gaunt, but more active. I really don't know what to think at this point. Maybe I've just gotten over the initial shock of seeing her look this thin. I don't know.

When I took her to the vet this past Monday, we agree to give her til today to get better. She does seem better as far as personality and mental state, but not really as far as breathing and body weight. I don't know what to think. Except, that it seems like she's fighting. I guess I'll call that specialist and see what he has to say. Any more insight you all might have on why she's acting the way she is would be really appreciated.

Thanks guys.

DovahDad · Mar 25, 2015

It sounds like you're doing your best for her. My only suggestion would be to call your vet and find out exactly what meds she is on, so you can talk to the specialist about it. He'll want to be able to make an informed decision.

Hang in there!

AHBD · Mar 25, 2015

Hi there....she does seem to be fighting despite being so ill, little trooper ! If I may make a suggestion, limit the baths to maybe 2X a week since she is getting the sub Q fluids and the supplements help with hydration as well. The baths can be stressful and might chill her. Afterwards, you can pat her dry and rather than wrapping her and holding her in a towel,put her right back in the warm tank. Being cold blooded, reptiles can't generate their own heat so a towel can't warm them like it does a mammal.

It sounds like her nasal passages are blocked so she has to gasp for air off + on, this plus an R.I in general just makes it harder to breathe. Hopefully she can kick this....at least she likes the Repta boost and had a more normal poo. A littlle bit of progress is always welcome with a sick pet.

Esther19 · Mar 25, 2015

My advice is to fight as hard as she does, as long as she does, but just a little bit stronger and a little bit longer. You know her better than any vet does. Trust yourself, and trust your girl. You will find your way through this together. And yes, I believe they do cry. Remember to take care of yourself, too.

Lilith86 · Mar 25, 2015

Thank you all, and thank you Ester. Thankfully my girl hasn't been teary eyed any more today.

She's much perkier now. She's still gasping but her beard isn't so black, and she's actually walking briskly around her cage! She seems interesting in things again (not food, but other things!). I just gave her another dose of antibiotic, and another 3ml injection of fluids. I've also kludged together a little ramp/ pillow where she usually likes to bask so she can be a little more upright. (She has an even more vertical bask spot, but this way all bask spots are on a slight incline and slightly closer to the heat). She seems better this afternoon. I think she's just tired and really wants to sleep but if having a hard time because of the cough. Poor thing. I'm going to try to syringe feed her, very carefully, a little, slow meal of chicken baby again tonight. I really want her to keep her strength up. And I think if I syringe feed her with a paste, very carefully, it will let me avoid her trachea better than having her lick the paste off the roof of her mouth from spoon feeding.

I finally found an 18inch under the counter florescent fixture, like shown on the forum's "Newbies Guide: Lighting Help" and put in a new Repti-Glo bulb I had just bought before switching over to the coiled bulb. I now know that this brand can cause eye problems, so I'm going to switch it out as soon as I can afford to (just another paycheck or so).

I got a few herpetology books from my library. One of them is fairly detailed on anatomy. I'm hoping this will help me figure out a little better how she works! For now, we have good news. I just hope she's feeling as good when I come home from work tonight.

Thanks all. Keep the positive vibes coming!!

Lilith86 · Mar 25, 2015

Oh, I almost forgot! Hey AHBD (or anyone else) do you have any recommendations for helping them clear their nasal passages? I make sure her shed out of the nostril comes out nice and clean so I know that's not the issue. Any recommendations to help jiggle stuff loose in there? Steam?

Thank you so much!!!!

AHBD · Mar 25, 2015

Hopefully the feeding well go well. You are really a dedicated + devoted beardie mom ! As for unclogging the nasal passage I don't know about steam for a beardie, it's a thought but then a nebulizing treatment would be like that while directly administering the meds. But hopefully her meds. will help her out and kick the R.I out of her system.

Esther19 · Mar 25, 2015

When my girl had a stuffy nose, the vet gave me a small bottle of saline solution to use twice a day, just a couple drops in her nose.

DovahDad · Mar 26, 2015

Wow, getting books from the library? You are one heck of a beardie mom! Keep up the good work.

One thing to consider is that, especially for an older beardie, you may not want to feed her too much protein. Chicken baby food is very high protein, and pretty high in phosphorous as well. When they're on antibiotics their liver and kidneys are already under a heavy load, so a high protein, high phosphorous diet could lead to excessive uric acid and be hard on the renal system. I'd just mix the chicken baby food with some squash. Also watch the vitamin A if the supplement you're using has it, as squash has quite a bit.

I'm no expert, but I wouldn't think steam without meds would be good for an RI. Would most likely just add more moisture to the already fluid-filled lungs. Now a nebulizer treatment with meds or diluted F10SC disinfectant is something I've heard people have used successfully.

Good move getting the new light - that's the kind the breeder who sold me my beardie uses. Should be a good one.

Good luck, and hang in there - sounds like you two are fighting the good fight.

Drache613 · Mar 26, 2015

Hello,

How are things going?
I agree, I would use just nebulization but not steam for the respiratory infection. Is she eating pretty the baby food without any trouble?
I am glad that you got a new UVB light, that should help out a lot.
At least she isn't gasping for air anymore & her beard isn't as dark today.
It sounds like she is feeling a little bit better. Please let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

Lilith86 · Mar 26, 2015

Hi everyone,

Aten passed away yesterday evening.

I was lucky enough to be able to spend the whole day before hand with her, bathing, feeding, and cuddling on the couch with her and a heating pad. We had a good day together. Thankfully, the fluids seemed to make her mental state fairly clear until the very end.Though in her last hours it was obvious that she was working very hard to breathe, she was uncomfortable, and she was very tired.

I had to got to work for a few hours that evening, and I can clearly remember the last time I put her down. She was always my little Buddha lizard- so peaceful, so calm under stress, so willing to fall asleep on my chest and "cuddle." I set her back into the basking spot in her cage, newly elevated at a gentle angle so it might help her breathe better. She seemed to perk up for a moment, exploring the new arrangement. As I left the room, I can remember her nodding off while standing up. My silly lizard. I remember thinking that she must be very tired from all this, and that I hoped she would get some good rest when I was gone. Maybe she'd be feeling better when I got back.

When my boyfriend picked my up from work, he told me he had some bad news. Poor dear was trying to break it to me as easy as possible, and he'd gotten teary-eyed. I new Aten had left.

All I wanted to do in that moment was see her. I had to see for myself that she was gone. Part of me regrets walking into the apartment and seeing her dead. This was not the Aten I remembered. But part of me was glad that I knew for sure that the Aten I knew was gone. She wasn't suffering any more.

I first met Aten at the pet store I worked at almost 8 years ago. My boss re-habbed wild animals. I worked in the reptile room. Someone surrendered a skinny beardie juvenile in a hamster set up to the store. When I clocked in that afternoon and saw a little lonely yellow dragon in a cracked tank on the store room floor, I fell immediately in love. She just stared at me with wide, calm eyes. I couldn't stop peeking in on her during my shift, just to see how she was doing.

When I drove her home, I was listening to what would become one of my biggest influences as a composer and an ancient Egypt hobbiest: Phillip Glass' opera, Ahkenaten. The highlight of the opera is a song called "Hymn to the Aten." Aten is the Egyptian name for the solar disk, the sun we see in the sky. Aten is one form of their ultimate Sun god.

This lizard was round and yellow, and I loved her, as much as I loved the music I'd devoted my life to. So I named her "Aten Sekhem," which means "the powerful sun."

When I found Aten dead, I was at a loss as to how to take care of her, one final time. I found an old pillow I'd sewn, tore it apart, and made a burial shroud for her. This may seem weird, but all I could think of was how early mummies in Egypt were not intricately bound, but gently tucked and tied snuggly into a simple burial shroud of cotton. I did the same for Aten.

I cried alot that evening. I'm still crying now. But I'm relieved that Aten is at piece. Though I'm going to miss her very much.

I want to thank you all so much for your advice, your encouragement, and your comfort. You have given me so much. I can't thank you enough. Being able to talk and reach out to you all made this whole process less disorienting, which allowed me to care for Aten better, and which is allowing me to grieve better as well. Thank you all so much for listening. I just hope that I can return the favor by becoming a regular member of the forum.

I'd like to close this post by sharing some pictures of Aten in her better days. I wish you all could have known her then. But, hopefully I can introduce you to my other babies. I'm very lucky to have three other scaley babies: Osiris, my other beardie; Annyong, my leopard gecko; and Midna, my uromastyx. I look forward to sharing them in the introductions forum.

RIP Aten...