Respiratory Infection seems resistant to treatment

[Lilith86]

Hi guys! I could really use some advice!

I have an 8 year old female beardie who has now had two rounds of antibiotics from our new vet but they don't seem to be working. She is now blowing bubbles and has ropey spit constantly. It's hard to read the antibiotic that the doctor wrote down, but it was a pink liquid and looks like "trimethopim/ sulfi drops." She's coughing/ wheezing a lot too, and it's getting louder. We did an x-ray the first time that she went to the vet, and her lungs didn't look cloudy, so the vet didn't think it's pneumonia. But I'm worried since the antibiotics seem to not be working at all, and since she is getting to be an old lady... I'm planning on taking her back to the vet for another round, but should I maybe ask for a different antibiotic?

When we first started treatment for this (end of January) she was also being treated for a heavy load of parasites :shock: We think she got them from a pet store's supply of crickets (we don't go there any more). She was a little underweight from that, but she has been eating well again and has gained much of her normal weight back (we're still just a few positive as of last week ). In order to make sure she's getting enough nutrition, if she doesn't eat works/crickets, I'll spoon feed her some fruity babyfood mixed with Zilla's caloric supplement, which has some vitamins and minerals in there too.

I've removed her water dish as of last night... vet actually told me to put one in there at our first visit... which gives me pause...

I was just wondering if you all have any advice on supportive care that I could be doing differently! Or maybe some of you have had better luck with different antibiotics?

Thank you in advance!!! Here are the required stats below:

Age: 8 years old
Size: full grown(will need to measure)
Size of the enclosure: 50 gallon?
Temperatures: basking is 110, cool side is 80 deg F. Have ceramic heater for night time and side mounted heating pad. Heat is 80 or above at night.
Type of substrate: was repti carpet, changed to easily disposed of paper towels as per vet. But she has a blankie to snuggle with under basking spot.
Diet: 6-8 live superworms or canned crickets every other day or so, a couple of bites of Rep-Cal fruit kibble in the morning (she refuses salads). Lately fruity babyfood and Zilla Caloric supplement if I haven't seen her eat anything other than kibble all day.

Will post pics tonight! Thank you for any help!

 

[Lilith86]

Here she is, my baby Aten!

 

[Taterbug]

Poor girl, hopefully some folks have some ideas for you, or you can figure something out with your vet. A few thoughts.... Has your vet run a culture w/ sensitivity on her? They would take a swabbing of her mouth, nose area and such and then see what grows. The sensitivity would determine what would be needed for treating it (in case it is drug resistant or not sensitive to certain drugs). They should also be able to run a fungal culture in case it is not bacterial. Personally, I would have this done before mucking about trying other antibiotics.

Her eyes look a bit sunken, is she perhaps dehydrated? Do you reconstitute the kibble with water at all, it sounds like she is mostly eating dry foods is that correct? Respiratory problems can be also linked to irritation from too dry of air, do you monitor your humidity? Dragons have a pretty high tolerance of dry conditions but they are from areas where the humidity can range between 30-60%. So as to the water dish, often people don't see their dragons use them but as long as you don't have humidity problems there isn't any reason not to offer a water dish.

 

[Lilith86]

Hi Taterbug!

The vet hasn't run a culture, but that sounds like a good idea! I'll ask about that when I go in. Can lizards have a fungal infection that effects their breathing? I've only heard of that in relation to skin issues.

To answer your question, the humidity is usually between 40 and 50% (we live in a coastal area). I give her a nice warm soak/ drink of water every 2 or 3 days, or as often as she'll accept any water. I tried putting water on the kibble once, and it somehow molded over! I've been afraid to do that ever since... but I do try to be attentive about her water consumption since her only "wet" food is worms. I did have a water dish... but I've seen some people say to remove them if the beardie is having respiratory issues. I took it out last night to see if it made a difference... no sign of that yet. But if it seems to not make a difference, I'll definitely put it back in!

Thank you so much for your reply! I really appreciate it!!

 

[Taterbug]

Yeah, there are fungal infections that get into the lungs etc. not sure how common or the sources but it would be worth talking to the vet about. I think another member on here was treating his rescue dragon for one. (Maybe message cooperdragon)

I had that same problem with the exoterra kibble I tried. I've got a couple jars of Repashy gel food to try recently - my guy seems to like the veggie burger some. If you can get them hornworms and silkworms are good for hydration.

Keep an eye on the humidity but it has not been my experience that the water evaporates fast enough to raise the humidty which is what people worry about for RIs. Especially air that's stagnant and damp can be a problem.

Our of curiosity how long are you used a cool uv bulb? I'm not sure how much it would help this situation but you could also consider upgrading the UVB. It could help improve her overall quality of life.

 

[Lilith86]

Hi Taterbug!

I just recently bought the coiled UV bulb and lamp dome, maybe about a month or two ago. Before that I always had a long tube UV fixture. I had so much trouble trying to change the last one (I seriously thought I was going to break the bulb trying to get it out, or at least slice my finger on the reflective metal sheet above the bulb) that I honestly gave up. Could you recommend a cylindrical straight tube hood that isn't quite so difficult to deal with? I'd gladly switch to a better device! I had no idea that the coiled bulbs did not provide full UV spectrum!!

Thanks for the recommendation on the fungal possibility! Perhaps I will message cooperdragon for some advice!

Thank you so much again for your response! I hope your little one likes the Repashy gel food. I tried a few different squishy foods for Aten, and she is just, well.... not into it. She'll let it sit until is completely dries out, and then eat it once it's crunchy! But she is a special one... perhaps not all lizards are like that :roll:

 

[Taterbug]

Pepper will wait until his veggies are crispy as chips if i let him. They can be so strange.

You could go a couple routes. Personally I like the T5 bulbs - you wouldn't need to try to mount it inside either of you get a reflected one. I use sun-blaster fixtures but you'd need to make a hanger for them (easy to do with some pvc pipes). Lightyourreptiles sells kits with arcadia bulbs. Reptisun makes a hood too. Their are also other brands (they are popular with reef aquariums and indoor plant growing) but I've only used the sunblaster and a Hagen aquarium one so I can't really recommend too many personally.

You can also get a T8, they are typically cheaper. There are a few ways to do it but using a reflector hood with out the screen in the way would be good for that.

If you still have your fixture you could try getting it out wearing gloves or by twisting it at the end caps instead of the bulb. They can get pretty well stuck in.

 

[DovahDad]

I also prefer T5 bulbs. I use a T5 Reptisun 10.0 in the Reptisun T5 reflector hood, on top of the screen. I think it does a good job, and it's very well reviewed. The T5s also reportedly last longer and use less power.

I agree that a culture with sensitivity is a very good idea. Best to see what she has in her lungs - and what kills it - before trying drugs at random.

As for the water dish, I think they're generally fine. The dish doesn't raise the humidity in my enclosure by even a percent.

 

[Lilith86]

Hi guys,

I have some bad news. As of yesterday evening Aten has taken a serious turn for the worse. She seemed to be feeling a little better and acting a little perkier yesterday night, but then had seriously explosive poops all over my bathroom (after I cleaned her up, much bleach ensued in there to fix it). She's been gasping non stop. When I picked her up to give her a bath, I noticed that she had lost about all the fat pads on her head and her eyes were super sunken. I gave her a warm bath, more poops happened, and she's been acting strangely drowsy. She's also got a constantly dark grey beard now when she gasps.

I think this might be it. Is there anything I can do to make her more comfortable? I'm cuddling her in a towel now. I just want to know if this is what they're like when they die and if I can make it any less uncomfortable for her.

 

[Esther19]

I'm sorry, Lilith.You're probably right. Holding her and talking to her is what she needs right now. She would be warmer against your skin. That may give her some comfort. Try to remove any goo from her mouth that appears to make her uncomfortable. She might want a drop or two of water if you dribbled just a bit over her nose. Maybe not. I lost my girl a few days ago in much the same way.
My heart is with you, dear.

 

[Lilith86]

Hi guys,

Thanks, Esther19. We made it through the night. She's up and basking this morning and has moved around a bit, walking to food bowl and back, but hasn't eaten anything. From across the room she looks almost okay, but when you get close you can tell there is something very not right in her eyes. I'm going to give her another soak tonight and spoon feed her some more baby food/ caloric supplement, just to keep something on her tummy. If we can make it through tonight, I'll take her to the vet after work tomorrow and have then make a definitive diagnosis.

Thanks for your support, everyone. It really means so much. I want to do everything I can for Aten, but I also don't want her to suffer. Any advice you have for me is much appreciated, to that end.

Thanks, all.

 

[Taterbug]

Oh no, poor Aten. I'll be thinking of her, hopefully the vet will have some answers or suggestions for you.

 

[CooperDragon]

I'm sorry I just came across this thread now. I agree with what has been said. Getting a culture taken will give the vet an idea about what's growing and what types of antibiotics are effective against the bacteria (and/or fungus) that grows. That's the best place to start. That said, it still may take some trial and error to produce an effective treatment. I also agree that based on the photos she looks dehydrated. I would try and syringe feed her some water to get her as well hydrated as possible. Be careful when you do this so you don't get any water down to her lungs. If you drop it on her nose and she licks it up, that's best. Otherwise you can slowly inject some (from above or the side to prevent it from going to her lungs) when she opens her mouth to cough. Hydration, and proper heat/lighting will likely give her the best shot and getting her system to kick in and start fighting this on her own a bit.

 

[Esther19]

I'm so glad she is still with you. Hopefully you will find a cure.

 

[Lilith86]

Hi Cooper Dragon and all others,

I spent the evening cuddling Aten. At least her beard is not grey anymore, but she is still wheezing and is drowsy. I gave her another warm soak this evening, and she actually drank! She seemed to look a little better in the eyes after that. I watered down some of the zilla caloric supplement in luke warm water and syringe fed her that. She took quite a bit, but then started gurgling, so I stopped. She's drowsy again, in a way I've never seen her be. I hope maybe this will help. Tomorrow afternoon I plan to take her to a vet.

As I'm writing, she's really gurgling. I've syringe fed her many medications before, and I've never heard her do this. I aimed from the side and up toward the back of her throat, so I'm pretty darn sure I didn't get any in her windpipe... I'm just hoping I didn't somehow make her worse.

Thanks for all your help, guys. I really appreciate it. I'll let you know how things turn out at the vet.