Reptisun 10.0, lethargy and closed eyes

[Claudiusx]

Coil uvb bulbs are bad.

And so are normal household coil bulbs.

There have been quite a few cases I've seen on here where coil bulbs (not uvb) have caused eye problems too.

-Brandon

 

[BadCon]

BadCon, thank you for clarifying. I was looking at the 6500k "full spectrum daylight" florescent like this: http://www.lampsplus.com/products/26-watt-daylight-6500k-cfl-twist-energy-star-light-bulb__35256.html

Should I add some brighter lights, then? He seems to be doing better with the UVB off for 2-3 hours a day.

He measured just over 17 inches last night and ate 9 supers and some salad this morning!!

The description of the light says "light that's more like the crisp light of daylight and not yellowy." So it's filtering out the yellow, which to our eyes looks more natural but not to the reptiles. I wouldn't use that bulb. The function of the daylight bulbs is to increase the blue hue and reduce the yellow, and it is not designed for reptile lighting.

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. There are no filters in place on standard fluorescent bulbs. The light spectra is controlled via the phosphor mixture employed during the construction of the bulb. Daylight style bulbs use phosphors that emit a broad spectrum of light...hence the term "full spectrum". This is unlike traditional incandescent bulbs, which only emit a vary narrow spectrum of yellowish light.
Full spectrum bulbs certainly have a place in reptile lighting, as you are only getting a limited spectrum when using traditional incandescent bulbs.
Look at a spectrograph of natural sunlight, now look at one of an incandescent bulb. There is a ton of the spectrum the incandescent is missing. Daylight style fluorescent bulbs are a much better approximation. However, as I said earlier, it is always a good idea to employ several styles of bulbs when creating a tank lighting setup. This way, you benefit from the advantages of each bulb type.

A traditional and easy to use setup would be an incandescent flood light for basking, full spectrum "daylight" fluorescent for ambient lighting, and a specialized UV-B source such as a Reptisun...this combination will offer the best approximation of natural light possible.

 

[ShannyBeard]

Coils are generally bad.

-Brandon

Coil UV-B bulbs are bad...the coil he linked is not a UV source, instead is just a household fluorescent. It is perfectly safe to use.

I would be very hesitant to use any daylight bulb that reduces yellow hues.

 

[BadCon]

Coil uvb bulbs are bad.

And so are normal household coil bulbs.

There have been quite a few cases I've seen on here where coil bulbs (not uvb) have caused eye problems too.

-Brandon

In my years in this hobby I've never once even heard a rumor of this happening. Nor do I think its even possible unless the suspect bulb was damaged in some way. Eye and skin issues result from the "bad" spectra of suspect bulbs. All the issues that have been reported were from bulbs known to emit short wavelength high energy UV-B, and in the most extreme cases, UV-C. Household style fluorescent bulbs do not emit UV-B or UV-C in any form, past say 1". The phosphors used during construction of these bulbs make this impossible. The only way dangerous emissions could happen is if the phosphor was damaged, creating a UV "leak". This has been reported with cheap UV bulbs made in china, but bulbs intended for household duty are much more stringently tested.

Not to be blunt, but I simply don't see how properly functioning household fluorescent tube or coil could cause any sort of health issues...its simply not possible. I would take a guess that any sort of issues you saw were a result of the other bulbs employed in the enclosure.

 

[Claudiusx]

Not to be blunt either,

But science and theory means nothing when real world examples prove otherwise.

Just like in the weightlifting business, all the science in the world would say that you MUST eat all the time to put on lbs and muscle. And thinking that you can put on muscle by fasting 20 hours each day was insane and against science. But when it came to people trying it for themselves and ignoring theories and science and why it shouldn't work, they quickly found out that they could put on tons of muscle with fasting 20 hours a day.

Point being that science is fine and dandy, so are theories. But real examples and experience will always trump theory and science and "what should be".

-Brandon

 

[BadCon]

Coils are generally bad.

-Brandon

Coil UV-B bulbs are bad...the coil he linked is not a UV source, instead is just a household fluorescent. It is perfectly safe to use.

I would be very hesitant to use any daylight bulb that reduces yellow hues.

You do realize that not all light in nature is yellow right? Not once has anyone said to only use blue light, nor is it appropriate to only use yellow light. You need to offer as complete of a spectra as you can. This is achieved by using a variety of bulbs. Full spectrum fluorescent bulbs are apart of this process.

 

[Beardednoob]

Anything that doesn't give off vivid natural light can cause issues with bearded dragons, if you are using a coil and there seems to be something wrong with the dragon this is where I would start. Contrary to some beliefs there are household bulbs that are safe, choosing is the battle, never use soft white or colored bulbs (even red).
"CFLs radiate a spectral power distribution that is different from that of incandescent lamps" subtle differences can cause issues.

 

[Claudiusx]

Let me rephrase some of my statement.

Experience and real world examples trump WRONG science, or mis-interpreted/used science and theories.

-Brandon

 

[BadCon]

Not to be blunt either,

But science and theory means nothing when real world examples prove otherwise.

Just like in the weightlifting business, all the science in the world would say that you MUST eat all the time to put on lbs and muscle. And thinking that you can put on muscle by fasting 20 hours each day was insane and against science. But when it came to people trying it for themselves and ignoring theories and science and why it shouldn't work, they quickly found out that they could put on tons of muscle with fasting 20 hours a day.

Point being that science is fine and dandy, so are theories. But real examples and experience will always trump theory and science and "what should be".

-Brandon

Did you really just try to prove your point by talking about weightlifting?

In all honesty, I think you are mistaken about either the bulb type being used or the actual condition the animal was suffering from. Because barring the bulb wasn't damaged, its downright impossible for a non-uv household fluorescent coil to cause eye issues, the emissions simply do not contain the energy required to damage cells. Photo-kerato-conjunctivitis is caused by high energy short wavelength UV-B and UV-C radiation...neither of which are present in non-UV household fluorescent bulbs if the phosphor is intact.
The only other way these bulbs could cause harm is if a person defied common sense and simply used too many bulbs of too high wattage, essentially blinding their animals with incredibly intense light. But in all honesty, this would take a level of stupidity so high that I doubt its even possible.

 

[Claudiusx]

Ok now I will be blunt.

It doesn't matter whether or not you can understand why or why not they can cause damage. Or why you think they don't.

The point is they CAN and HAVE.

 

[BadCon]

Let me rephrase some of my statement.

Experience and real world examples trump WRONG science, or mis-interpreted/used science and theories.

-Brandon

My real world experience has indicated no issues with properly functioning non-uv fluorescent bulbs. Also, there are numerous people on this forum who use these types of bulbs for additional lighting inside their enclosure. There are countless people who use these bulbs outside of this forum as well. If there were any major safety risks, I'm sure this forum would be swamped with concerned owners...as happens when ANY bulb that's common on the market exhibits issues.
End use anecdotes can't be repeated and are often contingent on hidden variables that might have gone unnoticed originally. I can't say why your experiences paint a bad picture of fluorescent lights, but I can say that my experiences and my understanding of the basic principles behind lighting, tell me that these bulbs are perfectly safe to use.
Who knows, perhaps the bulbs you encountered were faulty, or perhaps the setups had a 3rd variable that went unnoticed, or perhaps the animals were suffering from some other ailment. Either way, your experiences alone do not invalidate the countless other positive experiences people have had. Not to mention these positive experiences are backed up by the facts...

 

[Claudiusx]

I've never once even heard a rumor of this happening. Nor do I think its even possible

My real world experience has indicated no issues

You kind of contradict yourself here.

Do you infact have experience with this or are you just thinking like you said earlier.

-Brandon

 

[Beardednoob]

Are we talking about CFLs still of florescent? CFLs can cause adverse issues with particular dragons where some dragon might not be bothered by them at all. This could be to each dragons being individuals or the brand/quality of the CFL itself. AtlasStrike if it were me I would choose a path that is more widely walked and proven stable (safe). Experiementing with your loved pets might do more harm then good. If you want to add vivid light without the heat increase you can try bathroom globes, they give off less heat then standard bulbs.

I didn't see this brought up though... Perhaps I skipped it or missed it.
How old is the Reptisun 10.0 you are using? Perhaps you got a bad one, it does happen from time to time.

 

[BadCon]

I've never once even heard a rumor of this happening. Nor do I think its even possible

My real world experience has indicated no issues

You kind of contradict yourself here.

Do you infact have experience with this or are you just thinking like you said earlier.

-Brandon

Its pretty obvious now that you are grasping at straws. Since you can't form a valid argument for your position, you are going to try and attack me personally by looking for anything in my posts that seems remotely contradictory. Re-read my posts, my comments stand on their own. If you don't understand what I'm saying, that's your problem, not mine.

 

[Claudiusx]

You're two posts weren't remotely contradictory, they were completely contradictory.

All I'm trying to figure out is where your information is coming from. I hope its not just blind thoughts especially when a dragons health is on the line.

I completely understand what you are saying:

All your posts make it clear on why you don't understand how a CFL bulb could hurt a dragon.

Point being it can and has before.

-Brandon