Reptaid Discussion

[vickson420]

That would be fine and yes it really does only aid good growth and not bad.

 

[osmbr]

http://www.reptaid.com/testimonials.htm

check this out

 

[vickson420]

Yes thats from Elliots(ChamNW)website or is there something specific we need to be looking for?

 

[Freeie]

After reading up on Reptaid I've decided to try it with my beardie clan of 5. I put in a order tonight

 

[blondie098]

I always use the high dry setting on our lab scope for my direct smears and can see bacteria well. I'm pretty sure it's 40x mag. Of course this is my first weekend off in like a year so I will have to wait until Monday to check.. heh. I'll report back.

Tami - did you ever get to check on the magnification? We're investing in a scope for our dragons, and want to make sure we're getting a good range on mag! :mrgreen: Thanks. (this is just for our personal use, to keep constant tabs, it'll save money and rest our minds being able to do fecals inbetween vet visits.)

 

[ChamNW]

Blondie
Although you did not ask, I wanted to post this info in case anyone is interested in what we use for microscope and materials for our fecals. I have posted this all before and it seemed to be a blessing to some who used it:

Here is our recommendations for microscope and materials for doing fecals in your own lab or home:

Microscope from Amscope. Model M200-P Magification of 40x, 100x, and 400x. digital camera (640x480resolution) works with computer. Add the optional mechanical slide control. Here are the links

Amscope Homepage http://www.amscope.com/DigitalHP.html

Microscope we recommend: http://store.amscope.com/m200-usb.html
Mechanical slide: http://store.amscope.com/msa.html

Feca-med solution for fecal tests: http://www.petsupplies4less.com/sbsite.php?search_query=feca-med

Slides and coverslips: You can get these on Ebay of course but here is a website that sells both the slides and coverslips, and also the vials for doing the fecal floats.
Slides: http://www.onlinesciencemall.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/1920519/vpcsid/0/SFV/30852
3.5 dram vials This is much cheaper and just as effective as a fecalyzer vial that the vet uses:
http://www.onlinesciencemall.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/1787189/vpcsid/0/SFV/30852

The best book I know of to learn about parasites is "Understanding Reptile Parasites" by Roger Klingenberg, DVM. It is available on beanfarm at http://www.beanfarm.com/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=1745342.13760&p_id=12158&xm=on or maybe Amazon.

They also sell a plastic covered chart for helping to identify the parasites
http://www.beanfarm.com/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=1745342.13760&p_id=12162&xm=on


You also need toothpicks for stirring the poop in the fecamed, vinyl gloves, and disinfecting wipes for cleaning up around your work and microscope.

 

[ChamNW]

Here is the guidelines for doing fecal tests for parasites.
This is the float method.
1. Put on your vinyl gloves.
2. Collect a fresh specimen for testing, about the size of a raisin, and put it into the 3.5 dram plastic vial
3. Label the lid of the vial with the name of the animal if you are doing more than one sample.
4. Put the vial on your work surface with a paper towel or tissue underneath to catch the spills.
5. Fill the vial up half way with fecamed.
6. Smash up the specimen in the fecamed solution until it is all broken up and suspended in the solution.
7. Now fill up the vial until the liquid is a bit higher than the rim and if you put any more in it would overflow.
8. Place a coverslip, which is the little very thin piece of glass that come with the slide, right on top of the vial.
9. Some of the solution will overflow now if you had enough in the vial for it to work. You have to have direct contact between the coverslip and the liquid.
10. Allow this to sit for a minimum of 10 minutes for the parasites to float to the surface and they will collect on the underside of the coverslip.
11. Now pick the coverslip up and very quickly put it down onto the glass slide, with the wet side down. This is tricky because if you have a chunk of cricket shell or a leg part it will be too big between the two glasses to allow you accurately see what is in the liquid. So you can kind of scrape the larger pieces off the edge of the slide without losing all the liquid. The parasites will be in the liquid if there are any. There will always be chucks of unidentified floating debris and you can smash down the coverslip to crush some stuff. But the big chunky stuff won’t smash so you try to keep it out.
12. Now you place the slide in the microscope and begin to focus and look for parasites. Check what you suspect may be a parasite against the chart in Dr. K’s book or his parasite id chart.
13. You will basically work at 100x magnification all the time. You only go to 400x if you find a parasite and want to closely examine it to identify it correctly. Some coccidia is clearer at 400x. But once you get experienced with this, you can spot them right off and know what kind they are without going to 400x. Some parasites are only visible at 1000x with special stains like crypto but we are not testing for that with this method.
14. The other method of doing fecal tests is a smear. You just take some fresh material, just a tiny bit and put it on the slide. Mix it with some distilled water using a toothpick and apply a dry coverslip. This way the parasites are alive. You can also use a drop of Lugol’s iodine (hard to find) or merthiolate (any drug store) to stain the parasites and make them more visible. But of course the stains kill the parasite.
15. If you find parasites, shoot a picture with your digital microscope for the record.
16. To be thorough, check a lot of the slide, not just a view or two.
17. Keep a record of how many parasites you see per VIEW. Not per slide. Use a range. Like <1/100x means one parasite but not in every view as you move around the slide. 5-10/100x means you see between 5 and 10 per view at 100x magnification.
18. Discard the slide and slip, clean everything with disinfecting wipes and be sure to scrub your hands!

 

[TamiLynne]

Hi everyone,

Sorry to get back so late in the game, it's been a weird few weeks!

I did check on the mag. of our lab scope and it is 40x. I've been scouring my textbooks to find images of bacteria at 40x vs. 100x so that I may conclude if there is benefit in the extra mag. I'll report back.

So far I've introduced the idea/literature surrounding Reptaid to 2 of my docs who are a bit cautious but on board with it. After all, for how many years did we say "milk thistle? how silly!" only to have the clinical benefits proven decades after it was first introduced. How many animals could have reaped the benefits over those intermittent years? Now I just need a trial case, fortunately all of my pets are happy and healthy! If I had a controlled study, I would have more push. I don't believe one exists as of yet.. Elliot, do you have any accounts of some such study/comparison? I've read only anecdotal accounts of very sick/debilitated animals who benefited with this supplement in addition to husbandry corrections.

One of my docs is attending a seminar soon entitled "what to do with penniless reptile owners" (try not to take offense.. it's really to help offer solutions to people who don't have funding for expensive diagnostics which is a large portion of the reptile owning community) & I have encouraged her to mention Reptaid to see if anyone has comments regarding it either way. Not to have a standpoint, just to absorb reactions. We shall see!

-Tami*

 

[vickson420]

Hi Tami
Thank you for jumping on board with trying to determine the value/possible risks of the product.I am excited to hear of any results you may have with it.Unfortunately I posed the question in regards to test group studies to Elliot previously and to the best of his knowledge there have not been any which is why I am staying so reserved with my opinion of the product.I am one of those crazy folks that do indeed believe that before any medication is released it should be fully tested but as I am sure you are aware there is no regulation of this in the pet industry so this is rarely if ever done.I wonder could you ask your vets what their opinions are on the Pau' D'Arco?It is the specific herb in this product that makes me very nervous and it also happens to be the part of this product that actually contains the antibiotic/healing properties IMO.I know in avipow it was functional but also very harsh and in its pure form has semi-toxic effects so I was curious on their take on it.

 

[ChamNW]

Tami
Thanks for your last post.
I am totally on board with you about finding a solution to the "penniless Reptile owners" problem. And I am glad that this discussion wil be coming up at a vet conference. Being very realistic, there are a lot of people who are hurting financially right now and many of them have pet reptiles. It is certainly understandable that if a family can barely feed the kids and keep gas in the car, that mom isn't going to take a bearded dragon to the vet for treatment, and consequently the animal suffers. Or dies. And I get so frustrated to hear people on this forum and the other forums on which I contribute, who tell people that if they don't have the money to take their reptile to a reptile vet, then they should give the reptile to someone else. Come on folks, thats like telling someone to give their kid away! So I suggest to people to use reptaid, which works on so many things that afflict reptiles and is sooo much less expensive. Many many people have taken me at my word and have helped keep their animals alive and well.

As for clinical trials, no there have not been any conducted to my knowledge. I did talk to the manufacturer who makes Reptaid for me, Amber Techology. They said that they don't do clinical trials for their products. They have had long discussions with the FDA who would like to be paid millions (literally) to do clinical trials for all their products. But they only make herbal products and only for animals which are not for human consumption, so the FDA rules do not apply. Now I understand that the medical community would accept the product better if it were to go through real clinical trials with double blind testing etc. But neither Amber nor I have the resources to pay for that. And so all these herbal products go through extensive field testing, which is nothing less than people all over the world using it on every kind of reptile and reporting the results. And Amber told me that from the perspective of the herbal community, field testing with hundreds and hundreds of sick animals is much more effective than laboratory clinical trials with a few animals.

You might ask, how can we get the results of all the field testing. Well, we have sample of testimonials on our website. And this forum is full of reports of people used used Reptaid on their dragons very sucessfully. And then Google Reptaid. And you will find forum after forum of the same results from hundreds of people in every species of reptile. If it was not effective, you would find it all over the internet.

As for my own use, with some comparisons, we have that. For one example, we used Albon on a panther chameleon for months with a continual surging of the coccidia counts between courses of Albon. Then when we tried the Reptaid, the animal was soon clean, with no reoccurance. It took about 10 days but then he was clean. And he stayed clean. Same animal, same habitat, same food and care, different treatment and very different results. So in my experience, and please understand that I am not a vet or a scientist, this test was more realistic and effective than 2 animals with the same parasite, side by side. One treated with Albon and one treated with Reptiad.

Or lets talk about the 50lb 11' long Burmese Python named Cujo. she had a URI for a full year and after treatments with Baytril and Amikacin the URI would keep returning. But after 3 weeks of using Reptaid XL, the snake was all better and continues to be better with no reoccurance.
I could go on all night. I really sincerely feel that field testing is much better with much wider applications and exposure to so many breeds of reptiles than any clinical trials.

About the seminar, where is this taking place. If there is any earthly way to go to that seminar and talk to the vets, I would do that. Or if not, then perhaps I could offer some information and some samples for use at the seminar. Just a thought....

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

The discussion looks to be going well.
The field tests are probably the best way to gain information since the FDA is way too expensive. Besides, the FDA is corrupt anyway & are biased with the large pharmaceutical companies.
The best way to gain data is to document a certain amount of cases. Start with the ailment, when they got or had the ailment. If they had any medication, the dosage & duration, etc as well as when they started on the Reptaid & for how long they were on it. It needs to be on a time frame.
Then, once you have a good amount of studies, get it published in a medical news letter or maybe see if you can get it published in Reptiles magazine, etc. That would get more exposure & possibly help with credibility.
Everything starts like this & as you know, the supplement industry does have a lot of guidelines for humans, but none really for Reptiles. So, you will just have to keep working at it & eventually it will gain a credible reputation in the reptile industry if it continues to remain safe.

Tracie

 

[TamiLynne]

I misspoke as to the name of the seminar.. It is actually "Treating Reptiles Belonging to Penniless Owners". The seminar is part of the NAVC Conference, and is being presented by Doug Mader - the man who *literally* wrote the book on reptile veterinary care. Unfortunately it is further out than I thought.. It will be held Jan 20, 2010. But still, it's a place to be heard! I believe the conference is open only to vets, but it may be open to technicians and students. I will look into that possibilty. It is being held in Orlando, FL. Since I do know one of my vets will be attending, and I also have family in the area, it may be realistic to tag along. I'll work on that!

-Tami*

 

[ChamNW]

Tami
Thanks for that info. I read Dr. Mader's article in the Reptiles Magazine every month. I am going to write to him all about reptaid so he is familiar with it before he teaches that seminar. I would say that as knowlegeable as he is, he probably is already familiar with the product. we will see...

 

[ajkry2]

What an exciting prospect! Hopefully it comes to fruition I wonder what is the best and worst outcome could be of revealing the fantastic powers of Reptaid to the public reptile veterinary world...

On another note:
I have changed Saharas Reptaid schedule so it coincides with mine a bit better. 7 days on it (during the week, administering in the morning) and 2 days off (on the weekend) so that I can clean her cage well while taking a break from the meds

This is the third "round" and I'm no vet but her poop seems to be a better consistancy, smells less, and she seems to be enjoying her food more and more!! I haven't seen much physical change in her (colors, length) but behaviorial changes and BM changes are significant.

I'll get a vet check done early December (hopefully) and see if the coccydia and pinworms have gotten proper treatment with Reptaid...

I back your product 100%

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Not to put a damper on things, but Dr. Mader wrote the Reptile Medicine book in compilation with lots of other authors. I have the book along with other medical books.
While he is knowledgeable, he is not real open minded either, I hate to say. He is a good speaker, but not the vet everyone props him up to be. I have been to him several times, & he was not the most helpful. I lost a dragon due to his negligence & lack of willingness to do more. He just totally missed the entire diagnosis & would not help another fellow vet with the case either.
Sorry, I just did not want you getting your hopes up that he would actually be open minded enough to look at the product or listen much to you about it. Maybe I will be wrong, who knows, I hope he is willing to help.


Tracie