Quistions On Feeders...

[QuincysBoo]

Does anyone knows who sells grasshoppers in bulk?

Tracey

 

[Hopefulresearch]

I think they only sell those in the UK. If youre in UK, im sorry but i dont know.

 

[MountainBeardie]

Hi Tracey
I'm an Australian transplant now living in the USA. I found that the crickets sold in the States resemble the grasshoppers I used to fed my Dragons in Australia.

In Australia, crickets are predominantly black or dark brown with a hard outer shell. Grasshoppers are a light color and 'squishier' with a soft outer shell.

I have yet to find out if there is a nutritional difference between crickets and grasshoppers.

 

[QuincysBoo]

here is the nutitional value of both grasshoppers and crickets... Among other insects..



Tracey

http://www.ent.iastate.edu/Misc/insectnutrition.html

http://nagonline.net/Technical%20Papers/NAGFS00397Insects-JONIFEB24,2002MODIFIED.pdf

 

[runningguy]

Thanks for the nutrition paper from Michigan State U. That is the type of information I have been looking for. It does lead to alot of questions if I'm reading it correctly.

Many of us don't consider these to be good feeder insects for beardies, but.....

*The earthworm and nightcrawler have very good Ca ratio and is high in protein (CP) and low in fat (EE).

*The wax worm has less crude fat than the superworm and about the same amount of protein

*Mealworm larvae have similiar fat and protein as the American cockroach, and the mealworm beetle has much less fat than an American cockroach.

*Mealworm larvae has slightly more protein than the superworm larvae.

*Housefly larvae have less fat and more protein than superworm larvae.

The article does say that insects with more chitin may show as having more protein than they actually do.

They didn't test superworm beetles or tropical roaches, unfortunately.
Some of the works cited are older, but this is the most reliable sheet I have seen on insect nutrition.

Again, thanks for the information!

 

[Hopefulresearch]

While true about their nutritional value above, the reason why they aren't regarded the best is the chance of unhealthy, sick,dirty feeders is high. Also, when you compare a wax worm and a super work side by side, the super is much larger. Therefor the wax worm would be almost denser in fat is how I can describe it.

 

[runningguy]

The values are listed as a percentage so the size of the insect is moot. Also the waxworm and superworm both have about 7 kcal/gram so your lizard is getting the same amount of energy (calories) from each insect just more of it is in the form of fat with the superworm.

As for getting dirty and unhealthy feeders, that could happen with any feeder, regardless of nutritional value, that you buy from someone else. The only way to be sure of the health is to raise the insect yourself.

I find it interesting that the butterworm is 16% protein and 5% fat and yet they are considered "high" in fat. They may be high in calories but since they have more than three times the percentage of protein than fat, I wouldn't consider that unhealthy. I just can't afford to feed them as a staple. And I haven't purchased any yet.

I'm not trying to start any trouble, I just figured that the nutrition paper needed commenting.

 

[MountainBeardie]

Interesting reading, thanks for the link.

I've been using Pheonix worms as a boost for incoming undernourished calcium deficient Beardies. Have good results using them to supplement the diet, but I find it hard to keep them alive more than a couple of weeks when I bulk buy them.

Pheonix worms:
Fat 9.4%
Protein 17.3%
Calcium ppm 8155

Less fat, reasonable protein level and the highest calcium level for any feeders I've come across. Not a significant difference between Pheonix worms and Butter worms... except maybe the taste?

 

[runningguy]

Phoenix worms are cheaper than Butterworms, so even though they last longer you can buy Phoenix worms more often and spend the same amount of money. Butterworms seem to be about 2-3 times the price of Phoenix worms. Butters can grow to about 1.75 inches so they can get much bigger. But if you take them out of the refridgerator and let them grow they won't last as long.

I would also think that there are many other nutrients that differ between the two since Phoenix worms are a fly larvae and butters are a moth larvae.