question on tail bend UPDATE

[DTRM30]

We have had our baby for 10 days now - all seems good - looks and acts healthy other than preferring to have crickets dropped in one at a time close by - it doesn't hunt well yet. Explores it's enclosure, is alert and watches what is going on in the room. Walks on all four legs just fine. It's alert and watches everything that goes on in the room.

My son is worried that his baby has MBD because he's new at keeping him and has forgotten to dust with calcium once per day during the week. I did show him some pics last night of BDs with MBD so he understands the importance of giving the calcium supplement - he seems a bit more motivated now - he doesn't want that to happen to his (i've dusted his crickets a few times - so it's had calcium probably about 3-4 times in the 10 days and the multivitamin twice). I've decided I'll dust a dozen at night after I get home and put them aside for him so he doesn't forget until he gets a little better at remembering everything he needs to do - so it had calcium this am as well.

anyway - would MBD start to show this quickly in a baby ? Not sure how long it was at the pet store (I'm guessing only a week or two - they seem to sell quickly) or what type of care it was receiving - though I do think they had UVB lights in the tanks and were feeding small green pellet type food along with some small circkets. Can't say if they were getting calcium supplement or not. I'm at work so don't have a pic, but found one below that shows exactly what it's tail suddenly looks like. It happened almost overnight - literally - noticed it about 3 days ago. Doesn't seem to be bothering it - and it's definitely going into a tail shed. Noticed that about the same time. No doubt at all about that.

I have a 24" reptisun 10 tube in a 48"L tank (tube is new) 8-12" from basking spot (see below)
basking spot 101.2
two 75w clear bulbs for light
cool side 75-80.
It's eating about 10-15 crickets twice per day for a total of about 20-30 per day and has had a few pieces of collard here and there.
I remove any extra crickets I can find before I go to bed (my son has trouble catching them)
Bath every 2-3 days for 10-15 minutes
dusting reptical Calcium with D3 and Multivitamin supplements ideally 5x per week with calcium and 2x per week with multivitamin.

I had the uvb mounted in the tank to achieve the 6" distance, but it was hiding from it so I moved it to the top of the tank. It's not the ideal distance - more like 8 -12 inches depending on where it's basking (- but it does fall within the manufacturer recommendations and at least it isn't hiding from it. anything closer and it hides from the UVB under it's log so I figured better a little too far and getting some UVB than no UVB due to hiding from it.
I know the D3 doesn't do a lot, but with it hiding from the UVB any closer than what it is - the D3 may help.

Please keep in mind that This is NOT his baby, but one with a similar looking tail for informational purposes. I found this in another thread here - I hope the owner of the pic doesn't mind me borrowing it until I can get a pic of my baby later tonight hopefully.

The nearest herp vet is about an hour away - so was going to wait until it's a little more settled before stressing it even more by driving for an hour in this cold weather.

Thoughts ?

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....yes, if your baby's tail looks like the one in the picture, it is MBD. It can be developing over a period of time [ like in the store before you got him ] and then possibly your son also was not supplementing enough, so a small fracture can occur and/or the body may overcompensate by depositing extra bone material at that spot [ if there's a lump ] It sounds like you have the right bulb, so now be sure that the baby gets calcium 5 times a week on one meal of crickets per day and he should heal up fine.

 

[DTRM30]

Thanks,

That is what I was thinking - but not sure.

He's pretty upset over it. I told him he's doing things right - and that it's likely an issue that started at the store as I don't see how it could have developed in just the 10 days that we've had it. I know he missed a few feedings with the calcium, but it has been given the supplement around 5 times including today. I don't think missing a couple of days would cause it to occur that quickly, no?

Assuming it's been at the store for 1-2 weeks, and in our home for one week, would MBD occur in a matter of 3 weeks ? And show a lump literally practically overnight ? (making the assumption that it was cared for properly as a hatchling).

It's not really a lump, but more like just a bend. Instead of goning straight off the end of his spine, it just kinda bends down a little so that when it's on a flat surface, it doesn't lay flat. hard to explain - I think a picture would really help. I won't be able to get one posted though until about 9pm tonight by the time I get home and do dinner and all that stuff.

It's tail was normal looking when we brought it home. I'll try and get a pic tonight to post. Here are a couple from the day after we got it.

Just got some info for the closest vet - it's $75 for a well exam and $32 for a fecal. I'll be making an appointment soon - but it's going to have to wait a few weeks. If Hubby finds out how much the vet will cost he's going to have a hissy fit ! he thinks we have too many animals as it is .....

Two cockatiels, a geriatric diabetic dog that has gone blind, chickens, lizard (used to have a pond with fish and a SW tank as well - pond had to go b/c we needed to put in drainage in our yard - the basement kept getting flooded and the SW tank is a long story - I miss it though)

 

[DTRM30]

OK, so I'm thinking now it may just be the shed being tight? The bend is right where the shed line is - and after soaking in a warm bath for 10 minutes , his tail is laying flatter. Here is a pic .... It's not a lump - and it started right when his skin turned whitish getting ready to shed.

ANyway, I'm going to keep an eye on it - and see how it goes.

 

[daner923]

The UVB light should not be passing through a screen, as that can filter it out. I'm not entirely sure about the weird angle of the tail, but it does not look entirely healthy and natural like that. Is it possible he may have injured it?

 

[AHBD]

Aw, he's a real cutie pie ! Beautiful color and nice + healthy looking in the first couple of pics. His tail does have some abnormality though, it's not just the shed. Has he been pooing regularly ? If you saw him when he went, did he strain to go ? When there is a calcium deficiency it doesn't take alot of pressure to cause small deformities, and they don't have to fall or suffer a trauma for the bones to start becoming deformed, they just grow improperly. It's not serious yet, but just be sure to give him his calcium, don't leave it up to your son but supervise when he dusts the crickets. Also , you want to dust the crix right when you feed him, otherwise alot of the powder will fall off. One more thing, it would be best to have the UVB bulb inside the tank, or cut a hole in the screen so the UVB isn't filtered out because he needs the UVB very much right now. He could benefit from liquid calcium as well. One of the mods. [ Tracie ] who's user name is Drach613 sells it, as well as Cheryl from beardeddragon.co. He can still do well if you nip the MBD in the bud.

 

[DTRM30]

Thanks again !

Yes, he;s been pooping very nicely no worries there - Left a nice one this am LOL - moist, not runny, well formed. Urates do not appear to be hard. I've been making sure the crix get dusted - and he's eating healthy too. At 14 I don't need to supervise - just remind - but I have peeked in and he is dusting them. I'm going to try moving the UVB again this weekend - but anything other than where it is now he's been hiding from it and closing his eyes - which indicates that the UVB is too strong for him. When I take him to the vet in a few weeks, I'm going to ask him.

On a side note - after a bath his tail was laying almost completely normal, but once dry it's starting to kink again.

 

[AHBD]

O.K., his bathroom habits seem good, so he's not straining from impaction [ which could contribute to a lump forming ] The angle of the pic makes him look very lean, so that is contributing a little bit to the way his tail is laying. During + after a bath he would probably " puff up " as they do sometimes so his shape would look rounder + more filled in. Be sure to feed him crickets twice a day, as many as he will eat in about a 10 minute period. Hopefully he will grow to become a chubby, healthy adult beardie.

 

[DTRM30]

Thanks for your help and suggestions - you guys have been great

It doesn't appear as though he's suffering an impaction. He's pooping once to twice per day - good normal healthy ones. Even though they're little, it's still quite a large poop compared to the size of the little guy - can't wait to see what they're like once he's full grown LOL (yuck!) My son thinks I'm nuts because I ask (well, text) him every day when he gets home from school to see how Beardsley is, how much he ate and did he poop (and did he pick up the poop).

I plan to make a little schedule and print it and hang it on the back of his door to help him remember which days to dust with calcium, bathe and dust with multivitamin. He just got accepted into a presteigous AgriScience program - so I'm sure he'll learn a lot there as well. It's a nationally recognized program so he's very excited about it - the acceptance rate into the program is only about 50% due to the number of students who apply. It's like applying for college with interviews, letters of recommendation, grade submissions etc. He's thinking of the vetrinary or mechanics focus. But 1st year is exploratory so he'll get to try them all. anyway....

I think once i can get the UVB moved (and Beardsley doesn't hide from it) we'll be all set. Everything else is right where it's supposed to be. I want to wait until the weekend so I can watch and see how he's reacting as opposed to putting it in then being gone all day at work. I trust my son to feed and care for him, but when it comes to watching for signs of distress due to the UVB I'm not sure he'd recognize it. I got a different fixture so I should be able to hang it a little differently - keeping fingers crossed ! In the mean time, it is still within manufacturer recommendations for distance. There is a screen, but it's a rather large mesh, so the filtered UVB is likely around the 15% mark.

We've only had him for 11 days including today. The first 4-5 days he wasn't eating much as was expected so I'm sure he lost a little weight. But since then he's been eating between 10-15 crickets in the morning and again around 3:30 in the afternoon. I leave some bits of collard in a dish with a small amount of water to keep them moist and he appears to be picking at those as well. I have some phoenix worms that I'm going have my son try as well since he doesn't like to hunt the lazy bugger. he likes to have his food handed to him LOL. I think all will be fine once this adjustment period settles down.

If it is indeed MBD (as it appears is the most likely) - we are working hard to get conditions correct to stop it and confident that we will. I know PetSmart and other box stores are known for not taking proper care of their animals so it wouldn't surprise me if he did suffer a lack of calcium while there. Poor little guy - at least he's got a good caring home. I feel bad for the ones who are sold to people on a whim - who have no clue and dont' do any research first - and the poor things suffer. I even read on one site (ask yahoo or something like that) that someone was having issues with their BD tail - it looked to be broken. Someone actually said to cut it off because it'll just grow back. I sure hope that advise wasn't taken !

I've been doing my homework - I've read everything i could find here and elsewhere. Beautifuldragons (I think it was) has a good list of foods.

 

[DTRM30]

OK - so here's an update -

If it was the beginnings of MBD or just a fall off of his basking log causing a broken tail I don't know. I'm guessing probably both - as I know he did slide off the log a couple of times in the beginning landing right on his butt. It's a resin fake log and it's more slippery than I though it'd be and he initially had a little trouble navigating it apparently. It did happen literally suddenly. One day it was fine, the next it was bent. Nothing that slowly appeared.

Does anyone think it will cause any issues being so close to his hips ? Just curious. Otherwise, it seems fairly healed by now (not flexible though I don't want to mess with it too much) and i figure he'll be fine, just with a crooked tail. It's no worse. But his poor tail - it no longer is humped upward, but instead, is lying flat, but it still has a bend so it now lays flat, but bends to the right. Doesn't seem to bother him (but i know they hide discomfort pretty well), just looks kinda funky.

I don't have a pic, but I can get one later.

He's doing great otherwise though ! runs around up on all 4's - Eating LOTS - between 20-30 3/8" crickets a day (glad I decided to mail order them, much cheaper !). But didn't seem to like the phoenix worms. Ate two, and never ate another since. he's even eating some mustard greens - but prefers that I hold them and hand feed them to him LOL. The bum. He leaves a nice big moist poop every day around the same time (late morning) with no undigested food and moist urates. He's grown about an inch to an inch and a half since we got him 4 weeks ago and seems to be constantly shedding somewhere.


My son is doing great remembering to dust the crickets once per day with either the calcium or multivitamin, and I finally got his reptisun 10 mounted inside the tank where it belongs without him hiding from it - Yea (well, actually about 3 weeks ago now)

 

[daner923]

Sounds like he's doing great! If his tail has healed up just fine, a slight crook in it will not affect him much. Just keep an eye on his balance, since they do use their tails to help with that.

 

[DTRM30]

His balance seems OK - looks like he gets around just fine. The little bugger tried "bearding" last week, it was quite comical. I think it saw a reflection in the glass.

Since I don't have a pic - imagine this - the pic I have of his tail earlier, just change the orientation. Same angle of bend, just if you look down at him from the top now instad of from the side. If that makes sense. It seems to have moved in the bath after his tail shed two weeks ago and hasn't changed since. It's been about 3 weeks - and I know broken bones tend to heal in 4-6 weeks in general (sometimes longer, but young growing bones on the shorter time frame). So my guess is that this is the way it's going to stay. Just glad he's(or she's) apparently healthy so far other than this mishap. I've seen much worse, so I look at the up side - it could have been worse.

 

[daner923]

Yup, sounds like he'll have a slight handicap, but nothing serious. It's good that he is eating, pooping, and mobile - sounds like the picture of health!

 

[DTRM30]

here is a shot looking down when I got home fromw work the other day. If he backs up, his tail will do almost a 90 degree angle to the right, and never goes to the left at that point (though the rest will, making a somewhat comical S shape). But - it could have been worse I guess. I've seen some beardies pics that have had a hard life
There is some calcium dust from being fed that morning and some shed that flaked off during the day from his legs - no worries, it's been cleaned up.

His back is getting ready to shed in this pic, and has actually started to yesterday - Straight from tail, to legs to body, and now his tail is getting ready again before his back has even finished - poor guy - growing fast i guess

Here is the same shot from the side - amazes me how sitting like that can be considered comfy ! But, I'm not a lizard so I guess our opinions differ in that area LOL.

 

[daner923]

He's looking better! There's many worse things than a crooked tail. Just out of curiosity - do you have a red light on him, or is that just the color from your camera?