Not sure what's wrong, help needed!

[Taterbug]

There are plenty of much better options for UVB and we'd be more than happy to help you find the right one for your enclosure. What makes you say it wouldn't work with your setup, is the canopy one with screw in bulbs? If so, yes replace it with a good reflective fixture and a tube. Your vet may also be able to help you work out the equipment details.

Hopefully the visit goes well. I would agree one is in order. His head looks a bit sunken in the photos. Is it? How has he usually been getting his water?

 

[Taterbug]

Also, for calcium unless otherwise advised by your vet the supplements are intended for balancing the deficencies of food items, not for direct ingestion. In the case you need extra supplments premixed and dosed liquids are given.

 

[NeilMcGrane]

I've visited the vet. He gave Pablo a dose of antibiotics as he doesn't know exactly what is wrong with him. He also ruled out MBD, which I thought wasn't the problem myself, seeing as his body is fine, no lumps or lazy limbs.

I have to go back to the vet on Friday evening to see if he has improved. All in all, I think he's getting better but at a really slow pace. His thrashing around and head movements aren't as jerky as they were when I first noticed.

As for the new canopy, I'm asking a local reptile store about it and they're waiting on the wholesalers to reply with prices and stuff.

Thanks for the help guys. I will keep you updated.

 

[Ofthelime]

Well I hope all goes well with the vet.

 

[NeilMcGrane]

I decided that I wouldn't go back to the vet after he asked to see Pablo a second time to see if the antibiotics had any affect. There was no change and I wasn't too convinced this vet had much experience with exotics as I had to tell him what MBD stood for! :lol:

I did however dig into some information and found a vet by the name of John Bainbridge here in Ireland :study: He works or has worked in Dublin Zoo for 15 years and has 40+ years of animal experience. More info here for those interested: http://www.thezoo.ie/keeper-John-Bainbridge.php

I took Pablo to see him earlier this evening for a second opinion, he recommended that I get a blood test taken to determine what the problem is, so I have to revisit the clinic (45min drive) on Monday to get it done. He also gave me some canned dog food and said I can syringe feed Pablo that as he hasn't eaten much in the past few days. With the help of my father and sister we managed to get a nice amount into him and he didn't thrash his head around like he has been when eating the worms which is really nice

Luckily enough I kinda have the funds to do this as I wasted €30 on the first vet for 1 shot of antibiotics and a vet with little to no experience of exotics. Then it was €44 for this evening's consultation and then a further €107 on Monday for the blood test. I'll try to keep you guys updated on this thread so that anyone with similar problems in the future can maybe learn from this

- Neil

 

[Ofthelime]

It is good that you found a guy with experience.
For future reference you can visit retilesmagazine.com/vetlist or arav.com to find a herp vet

 

[NeilMcGrane]

It is good that you found a guy with experience.
For future reference you can visit retilesmagazine.com/vetlist or arav.com to find a herp vet

Neither show me vets in my area. Looks mainly for the US.

 

[Kiara1125]

If you want some good stuff to feed Pablo, I recommend Oxbow Critical Care. My veterinarian put my first beardie on this when he had severe MBD and it reserved it completely. I highly recommend it and my vet was a savior for recommending it. I've even used it on Leopard Geckos and it bounced them back from the brink.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oxbow-Critical-Care-Orignal-Anise-141-Gram-/150904727561?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23229f6809

 

[NeilMcGrane]

Hi,
I just got the call from the vet about Pablo's blood test. There's nothing abnormal according to the results which is really frustrating seeing as now we're back to square one, not knowing what's wrong. Also the fact that it was €107, but at least we cleared up that he's not lacking anything.

He seems to be a bit more energetic recently, but the only movements he can make are either pushing himself forward, or dragging himself around in a circle. I have to move him onto his basking spot as he can't do it himself, but he can get off it when he wants.

The vet now wants to do a faecal test and put him on a course of antibiotics. Do you guys think it is worth it? Does he even know what he's treating with these antibiotics? I've no problem doing the tests and antibiotics course but I'm not made of money, so I don't want to pay for stuff that will not cure/fix Pablo.

- Neil

 

[AHBD]

Hi again Neil....I'm sorry you're spending alot of money with no results. I agree with the other posters who suggested better lights and the Oxbow critical care. It may all be related to improper lighting, but then again it may be genetic. If you haven't had him tested for adenovirus.....which is a separate test from the usual blood panel, you can find out if that may be the cause. As for starting on antibiotics, nothing should be given until a DEFINITE problem is found. So IF the vet finds a moderate -high parasite load, then the type of parasites will determine what meds. should be given. For instance, Panacur is often prescribed for pinworms, whereas Ponazuril [ Toltrazuril ] would be for coccidia. Some vets give Albon for coccidia, but it is much harsher than Ponazuril and your boy already is having a rough time.

I just want to add that a vet being affiliated with a zoo does not make them any more experienced with beardies UNLESS he deals with sick beardies on a regular basis. There was a poster here years ago who had a fat, obviously gravid female ready to lay eggs, scratching like crazy in her tank and not eating. The poster was inquiring as to what the problem could be....I suggested that it was about to lay eggs. Poster took it to the vet who was affiliated with a zoo here in the U.S, vet said " no eggs " just carry on as usual. It was pretty obvious the dragon was about to lay eggs, and sure enough did within a day of the post.

So I'm not putting the vet down, but just want you to be aware. If he has NO clear diagnosis, just nutrition and proper lighting may be all that's needed. I know you don't want to waste money, and I'm sorry your dragon is in this condition. Ask the vet for the Critical Care formula [ much better than dog food ! ] and if he doesn't carry it, look online.

 

[NeilMcGrane]

Hi,

I've uploaded a video to show you what his movements are like (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe4oSMuySbU&feature=youtu.be). He just sits there mostly with his head and then when he wants to move he'll do those spins. This video was taken about 10 minutes ago and sorry for the video quality, I had to flip the video through a 3rd party website and that reduced the quality a lot.

Also, Ireland doesn't have many vets specialised in exotics and the vet from the zoo I visited seems to be the best one around as I've heard his name mentioned numerous times as the best vet for the job. Other reptiles owners in Ireland say he's the only vet they trust with their animals so he must be good But I still have yet to go back to that vet after recommending the faecal test due to limited funds and that it is a near 1 hour trip each way.

Right now Pablo is eating really well and he hasn't thrashed his head around the way he was a few weeks ago. He looks a lot healthier these days but still has that problem of head down and spinning. He' eating really well but right now more mealworms than veggies which isn't good but it's a definite improvement.

Any suggestions on what you think the problem is or how I can further help him is greatly appreciated

 

[diamc]

Your poor little guy. I watched the video and it was so sad. He acted like he felt dizzy and off balance. I also noticed in the pictures that the top of his head is somewhat concave meaning dehydration and possibly nutrition related. Meal worms aren't a very good feeder, have a low nutritional value and are also an impaction risk. Silk worms are a great feeder and move slowly so they would be easy for him to grab. Horn worms are good too. Even super worms would be better than the meal worms.

Could you fill us in on the size of the tank? Also, what type of thermometer are you using, round gauge (dial), digital strip, temperature gun or digital probe? What are the tank temps? What is the substrate on the bottom of the tank?

I agree with the others about changing the UVB to the Repti-Sun 10.0 strip fluorescent. The coil bulbs cause all sorts of issues including lethargy and some neurological symptoms have been noted. Having 2 - 10.0 AND 2 - 2.0 coils bulbs is a lot for any size tank and would increase the chances of having ill effects from them. That is a real concern, in my eyes anyway. Would be a good idea to turn off all the coil bulbs and if you need more light, put 2 low wattage standard household light bulbs (25 watt) in place of 2 of the spots. Then you could see if there is any difference in the way he is acting and able to maneuver to find out if the issues are from the coil UVB's.

I also think it would be a good idea to fed Oxbow critical care formula, in the meantime, you could pick up some chicken or turkey baby food and some squash or sweet potato baby food. Mix some of one of the meats with the veggie and put drops on his nose for him to lick off. You can even dilute the mixture so he is getting some water intake too. Can add a small pinch of the calcium to it also. Dog food is very hard for them to digest and is concerning.

Good that the blood work results were all negative. Not a good idea to put him on an antibiotic without any good reason to do so. If his fecal shows a high parasite count, that would be a different story.

Please fill us in on the rest of the info we inquired about. We really are concerned and want to help you get him straightened out.

 

[Esther19]

The Arcadia 12% tubes are available in your area, as well, and are as good, if not better, than the
Repti-sun 10.

 

[diamc]

You're exactly right Esther, the Arcadia bulbs are awesome and should be available there. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[NeilMcGrane]

Hi,

This is his tank now. I believe it's a 50-gal tank, 36x18x18. It's setup the way it is now because he can't climb so he needs floor space. The bottom of the tank has 1-inch thick wood.

I use a digital probe for the temperatures. It shows 105° fahrenheit under his basking spot and then goes to around 80-85° on his cooler side.

I've replaced the coils with this Repti-Glo 10.0 tube. I know the Repti-Glo isn't the best bulb by all means, but it was a quick buy to get rid of the coils quickly. The next tube I will get is the Arcadia. The coils I was using came with the Exo-Terra canopy so at the time I thought they'd be good. Obviously I was wrong

Yes I'll need to get silk worms. The problems for me is not everything is widely available in pet stores in Ireland like it is in the US so it's difficult to find people that supply all the recommended supplies here.

His slightly concave head is from before I've had him. I got him from someone who didn't want to look after him anymore. Can the concave be fixed? I doubt he's dehydrated because he actually drinks sometimes from his water dish and I've been giving him some water lately via syringe, and of course his baths.

The dog food that was given by the vet was a recovery mixture so maybe different from your typical dog food. I've also syringe fed him some chicken & squash baby food. The antibiotics haven't been given they were just a recommendation if something was found in the faecal test.

Thanks,
Neil