Lotus vomited - Doing much better now!!

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Hi everyone,

Yesterday Lotus vomited a bunch of undigested dubias that she had eaten two days prior. I immediately put her in a warm bath and gave her water w/electrolytes orally. I then rushed her up to the vet, thankfully they're open on Saturdays. The vet said she seemed ok aside from a slightly bloated tummy. He said to bring her back Monday if she wasn't better by then.

I'm pretty sure I know how this happened, and I feel more terrible about it than I can describe. I usually check her temps every few days, but I really thought I had gotten them to a good stable point, so when I checked her temps the day before this all happened it had been about a week since I'd last checked. Anyway, her temps were running just under 95 degrees basking point, 87 degrees hot side, and 76 cool side. I knew this was not hot enough so I took her light off the lamp stand & put it directly on top of the screen mesh, but this was already around 8pm and her lights went off an hour later. The next morning is when she vomited... I'm sure her temps just hadn't been high enough to digest those dubias.

The same day she had 4 little runny poops, usually right after drinking oral fluids which we gave her 2-3mL of every few hours. I soaked her a few times, sometimes to clean poo off of her. She was falling asleep in her baths which she's never done before. When I put her in her tank, she'll walk right over to her basking rock cave and climb up to bask, but she just stays there splatted out like she has no energy. Today she's acting the same. She'll get up and walk around from time to time, so I know she can support her weight and move just fine. She's still falling asleep in her bath though. I'm continuing the oral fluids + soaks, and I gave her 2 small dubias to see what she would do. She wouldn't chase them far, but she got them & ate them - definitely interested.

Should I feed her some Critical/Carnivore Care mix that I have? Could she just be weak from purging everything out of her system? At the moment she's basking, but every time I take her out of her tank she just wants to cuddle up and go to sleep on me. Is there anything at all I can do for her??? I'm also worried because she was in the middle of shedding her beard and lower face before all this started and all shed progress has stopped. I just lost my other dragon Monster a few weeks ago (story here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=171311&hilit=+Monster) ...I just can't bare to lose my other little girl. Seriously, it will kill me. I feel beyond terrible that I didn't check Lotus's temps sooner. I should've known better with the fluctuating ambient temps here in Texas. Right now I'm using a Powersun 160w but am in the process of switching to a Reptisun 10.0 plus basking/heat lamp so I can control the temps a bit more precisely with a dimmer. I'm just waiting on some custom mounting brackets to come in the mail. Right now her temps are 100 basking, 93 hot side, 83 cool side. Please help me help my dragon, I love her so much & my heart is in pieces right now. I can't stop being terrified of losing her.

As far as husbandry, quick run down but it's been approved here several times before...

Enclosure: 48"x18"x21" (75gal) glass enclosure, not cohabitating with any other dragons
Lighting: 160w Powersun MVB
Substrate: Paper towel
Furniture: Long branch on hot side, rock cave/hide on hot side, hammock & log hide on cool side, palm sized flat rocks randomly placed across floor (to wear down nails)
Diet: Turnip greens, arugula, blueberries, cactus, all kinds of squash (she's on a somewhat different diet recommended by Tracie for her high uric acid levels) plus 15-20 medium dubias twice per week
Supplements: Liquid calcium+D3 3x per week, liquid vitamins 1x per week, probiotics 2x per week, black cherry concentrate & Allopurinol every day (for high uric acid, recommended by Tracie)
Age: Approx. 24months, got her as a rescue about 3 months ago
Vet record: She had x-rays & blood work & fecal done about 3 weeks ago and everything was fine, aside from the high uric acid levels

Please help me... I seriously don't know how to tell whether my beardie just doesn't feel great or if she's dying. I can't let that happen

 

[Reptar101]

I'm really sorry, I can't help, but I will do my best to send positive thoughts your way!

 

[PonchoandDaddy]

It sounds like little Lotus is just tired and weak from throwing up. It takes a lot out of them. I am hoping someone else will chime in but rehydrating her and her resting is really what she needs. Its good that she's still interested in food and that she will chase them but not far sounds to me like she's just worn out. I know you are worried sick about her. You're a great beardie mommy and I'm praying for your Lotus. I have faith that with rest she will regain her strength and be right back to her old self. Rest assured you're doing everything right.

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....I'm sorry your girl has had this trauma ! The good news is that she will bounce back just like any beardie when it's had an upset tummy. It usually takes a day or two, maybe three. If your beardie has been happy + healthy, she will be just fine. As long as you get some fluids in her, don't worry about bathing her. Some fluids and rest is all she needs.

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Thanks everyone so much. I'm sorry if any of this seemed overly dramatic, but losing my other beardie recently has put a fear in me like no other. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable when it comes to the basic care of beardies and all the obvious things, but when it comes to troubleshooting I just feel useless. I decided to give Lotus some Critical/Carnivore Care just now, and she slurped up 3mL very quickly with no resistance at all. She seemed like she really wanted more, but I'm going to hold off and give her tummy some time to settle with what she's already had. There's greens & squash in her food bowl if she wants any of that. The little bit of nourishment seems to have perked her up a good bit - she took a decent length stroll from the living room to the dining room. She's back to basking in her tank now, still fairly splatted out over her rock cave :|

Should I give her more Critical/Carnivore Care later if she wants it? How much in fluids should I be trying to give her? She's full grown at 17.5" about 450g. Is it ok to keep adding a few drops of electrolytes to each 3mL syringe of water I give her? Thanks again for your help everyone, I'm just so worried

 

[AHBD]

Of course it's traumatic for you, completely understandable since your Monster just passed away, then this. And dragons DO look totally pathetic when they vomit, at least for the first day or so. [ I've seen mine do it in the past years occassionally ] So that's a good sign that she took food already, you might offer a wee bit more later, but mix with more water, or just offer water + electrolytes to really give her time to get her system right. Her weight is good + hefty, so just ease her back into eating insects when she's ready. In a day or two she may show more interest in bugs, so let her have a few less than normal until you see no sign of a repeat throwing up...but I don't think there will be.

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Thank you AHBD... I let her have another 3mL of Critical/Carnivore Care just now, but it was heavier on the water this time. She took it down eagerly again. I'll hold off on giving her any live feeders until she's stronger. She seems to be making a small bit of improvement though. She walks around more & more every time she comes out of her tank. As cute as it was when all she wanted was lazy snuggles, it makes me feel better that she's a bit more active now & wanting to walk around on her own. Do you guys think I should turn off her lights early tonight to let her get some extra rest? They're currently on 8am-9pm. Thanks again everyone

 

[AHBD]

Your'e welcome. I know your'e worried about her. I think she'll be fine in no time. I'd personally leave the lights exactly the same as you have. As for resting after being sick, just limit the handling for the first day or two. So hard for some of the doting beardie mom + dad's who want to hold them all the time !

 

[speedyfuzzball]

Christina =( I'm so sorry Lotus isn't feeling well It's awesome to hear that she's recovering already though. I'm no expert but I think it's a good thing she vomited because I've read that undigested food can rot inside a dragon which can cause even worse problems. You're not being overly dramatic.. I know how scary it is! A while back, maybe in late May or June, Yoshi threw up approximately undigested 12 wax worms and I was horrified but he eventually recovered. If little Yoshi, as sick as he was, recovered from it, then I'm positive a big, healthy Lotus can get through it no problem. Crossing my fingers for a speedy recovery!

 

[beardie parents]

I understand your fear since Lotus vomited, especially after the loss of your other baby. When you loose a loved beardie you are more scared when one of those that you still have seem to be sick or not their normal active selves.

I think she will be fine, eventually. Goldie threw up a couple of years ago when she downed 8 or 9 supers, whole. The next day they were all still whole in the bottom of her tank. This happened in the morning and by the next day she was fine. Rosie threw up once shortly after we got her (the end of this coming September we will have had her for 4 years) and in her case I believe it was because her temps were not correct (temporary tank) but she was fine in a few days, she was maybe 8 inches long, anyway.

 

[SpikesAgirl]

Oooooh Christina! I have no advice to offer just wanted to say I hope Lotus is feeling better quickly! I would be freaking out too if I were in your shoes! I'm sure it's scary to have something unexplained like this happen to Lotus after losing Monster so suddenly! *Fingers Crossed* for you and Lotus that everythings OK!

 

[Drache613]

Hello Christina,

How is Lotus doing tonight? Any improvements I hope?

Tracie

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Lotus seemed to be doing better yesterday, but this morning I found what looked to be vomited Critical Care in her tank. I can't definitively say whether it was vomit or poop since I didn't see it happen, but I think it's vomit because it looks & smells exactly like it did before she ate it... doesn't smell like poo or look digested at all. I fed her 3mL of Critical/Carnivore Care twice yesterday, and the "vomit" I found today was two cylindrical piles, same size & side by side. It's like she's just not digesting anything at all. Should I have not fed her at all yesterday??? She just seemed so weak & she really perked up after she ate. I gave her the 2nd round of Critical Care about 4 hours after she ate the first round, to make sure she would hold it down. Anyway, now I'm worried sick of course so I brought her to work with me (my vet is right next door) so I can take her back to the vet as soon as they open. I really don't know what to do... it's like she just can't digest. But yet she's still interested in food & she's still basking all the time. Her temps are fine now, so I don't know if that ever really was the problem. Any suggestions anyone?? I'm at my wit's end and I can't bare to lose my baby girl

 

[AHBD]

Hi Tina, yes, I think just letting her rest with no food and just a little water is the best " medicine." Anytime one of my beardies vomited, I just gave water, I didn't add a thing to it....in 2 - 3 days their appetites returned. Just give it some time....her tummy was still not wanting any food yet.

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Thanks AHBD, that's what I probably should've done ...I just figured if she was so eager to take food then a little bit would be good for her, especially just Critical/Carnivore Care. Just went to the vet and the doctor said she seemed fine externally, which I agree with. I have to bring her back later for an ultrasound though, $320 :shock: Thankfully they didn't charge me any exam fees for the two times they've already seen her. They want to check for any sign of impaction, built up fluids, and/or a possible stomach tumor. The best case scenario would be that they find nothing - then I would just give her fluids & leave her alone for a few days. The only thing that I can think of besides the temps that could have happened is if she maybe ate something foreign in a split second when we weren't looking, like a penny or something. That's highly unlikely as we always watch her closely when she's out & we make sure the areas she goes in are dragon-proofed, but anything is possible I suppose. I'll let you guys know what happens after the ultrasound.

On a side note/question... she's here at work with me now, and I had brought her light plus a big box with her blankie & hide spot, but she still freaked out in it. Right now I have her underneath my shirt on my chest & she's asleep. Will she stay warm enough like this with my body heat for several hours, or do I need to force her to stay in the box under the lamp?