Lotus vomited - Doing much better now!!

[Drache613]

Hello Christina,

I am sorry Lotus is still having some trouble today!
I would just let her rest & don't give much fluids today. I wouldn't give anymore critical care today, either.
Hopefully her tummy will settle down a little bit today. She is fine laying on your for awhile if she is not happy
in her box under a light at work. Maybe she will want to sit under her light later on?
Geez, I hope nothing shows up on the ultrasound like a tumor, etc. She shouldn't be impacted either, but at
least that will check on that possibility, also.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Ultrasound came back showing 2 points in her intestines which seem to be dilated & holding some fluids. Apparently there's some medication they use on dogs & cats for this sort of issue, so the vet is researching whether or not it's safe for reptiles. Other than that, if she doesn't improve then the last resort option would be exploratory surgery

 

[AHBD]

Wow, I've never heard of anything like that, I wonder what the vet would say if you just waited a few days to see how she does. Has your vet never seen this type of condition ? And did they explain why or how it would be dangerous ? It's really important to know these things before the serious step of surgery. And is this vet really an experienced herp vet that has seen many reptiles ? The only reason I'm asking is because at times they are way off....I'm not saying that's the case....but just want to be certain this warrants surgery. There was a poster about 1 -2 months ago whose vet took X - rays [ and thought the beardie was male ] and said there were strange shapes in the beardie. The X-rays were posted here, and it was easy to see that the beardie was full of eggs. The vet had no clue ! So, just be sure about everything before you make a decision....I'm not saying one way or another, just be careful !

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

All very good points and questions AHBD. This vet is said to have been very experienced with exotics in general and reptiles especially. The doctor who owns the vet office where he works actually recruited him all the way from Iowa just to work with the exotic patients since the demand for such expertise is apparently increasing in my area. But like I said, this is just what I've been told so I take it with a grain of salt. I actually tried two other "reptile vets" before I found this one, and he was the only one who had ever even heard of probiotics or yellow fungus or adenovirus & didn't agree with prescribing Albon for every little parasite on earth :roll: I'm not saying he's the best, but I've exhausted all other options within a few hours driving distance (except for Tracie, she's only a few hours away from me :twisted: )

Anyway, he admitted that he's never seen this in a reptile but he has seen it in dogs & cats. It's almost like constipation, but instead of being due to a blockage it's due to swelling in her bowels. He was honest about the fact that he's not sure what could've caused the intestinal dilation, but that it could've been related to her digestive system being inflamed due to the low temps. He's also the vet that did the necropsy on my little Monster and found the rupture that caused her to bleed out into her pericardium (I have pictures if anyone wants them)... no one had ever heard of that happening to a reptile either, but it did So it looks like I just happened to take two very special dragons into my home and into my heart. The ultrasound tech considered this a great learning experience and ended up charging me NOTHING instead of $320. This brings the total up to $430 that this vet's office could've charged me for and didn't, so kind of them.

As for surgery, trust me he is NOT recommending it and doesn't think it's anywhere near necessary at this point - it's just that exploratory surgery is the worst case scenario/last resort option IF she doesn't get better within a week or so. He prescribed a medication called Metoclopramide, which he fully informed me of the risks and possible side-affects of, but I'm not sure if I'm going to give it to her or not. He was concerned because on the ultrasound it looked like the movement of her digestive tract was kind of rocking back and forth instead of moving straight in the direction of the bowels, but he's admittedly not sure if this is a symptom or a cause of the problem. He's hoping the meds will stimulate her digestive system and get it moving in the right direction, but I have to decide if I'm going to give it to her or not.

*sigh* I love my baby girls so much (RIP Monster, my sweet little dragon) and I have never given them any less than the best of care or attention. I've poured over $2000 into beardie care, set-ups, feeding, vet bills, etc. all in barely 3 months time... and I would spend my last penny to do good by my beardie(s) any day. I just wish there was a price to buy peace of mind :-|

 

[AHBD]

I see....hopefully this intestinal upset and curious ultrasound image will correct itself on it's own. A few days or so should give it time to rest + get back to normal if it isn't something serious.

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Thanks AHBD... have you ever heard of the digestive system not "moving" correctly like they saw in the ultrasound? I've only read about something like that once or twice. Any opinions on the meds? Really, I'm not a sensitive person at all. If you would do anything differently, please let me know. I always get Tracie's opinion on everything as well & decided to trust her as opposed to my vet when it came to evaluating Lotus's uric acid levels. I can very much recognize when others know better than I (as do you) and I value your opinion. More information will only help any other member who has a similar problem & finds my thread, and helping all the beardies we can is the goal of course

On a side note, Lotus had a very high count of hookworms and coccidia when I first brought her home. She's clear of everything now except a super low count of pinworms, which I'm not overly concerned about. I have no idea how long she had the hookworms, as she was a rescue. She has NEVER had a good looking formed poop. Every single one has been like horribly smelly watery diarrhea, and neither my vet or Tracie know precisely why. Is it possible that her digestive system could've been really damaged by parasites?

 

[AHBD]

I'm sure that parasites, including cryptosporidia can possibly [ but not necessarily ]damage the digestive tract if there are heavy loads. I'm not familiar with the meds. that were prescribed, but if the side effects are harsh, I still think [ what I would do myself ] is just wait a couple days to see if she sorts herself out. A little fluids tomorrow without anything added [ I think the critical care is high calorie + maybe too rich for her after being sick ] and hopefully she'll be back to her old self in no time. And as for Tracie, she is a real champion on this site, knowledgeable and patient with lots of good info for all situations.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Christina,

I hope Lotus is feeling better soon.
I wish I would have known about the hookworms, or maybe I forgot.
Hookworms can cause extreme damage to the GI tract which could cause lacerations & sometimes permanent damage.
They can cause poor absorption & irritable bowel syndrome type of symptoms which would explain runny stools & or bouts
of constipation, etc.
I think now that is what has caused the swellings, etc in her system & the areas have just flared up. She may need to
be on a softer diet, permanently or for awhile.
Using probiotics on a regular basis would be very helpful too.

I am sorry I didn't know about the hookworms or forgot!

Tracie

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Hello Christina,

I hope Lotus is feeling better soon.
I wish I would have known about the hookworms, or maybe I forgot.
I am sorry I didn't know about the hookworms or forgot!

Tracie

You have a copy of all of her fecal tests - it was the very first weird hand-written one. Geeze Tracie, how dare you forget even one little detail amongst the thousands of dragons you've helped (for free none-the-less)!!! Don't be ridiculous lol. I'm just glad we have a probable cause narrowed down... I feel so much better when things make a bit of sense. Thank you so much for all of your help; I don't know what my dragon(s) or I would've done without you.

Lotus seems to be feeling better now. Her colors are back to normal & her shed has kicked back into gear. I had let the vet give her one dose of the Metoclopramide and it seems to have made an improvement in her, so I'm going to continue giving it to her for the recommended 7 days. I'm not going to feed her anything today or tomorrow (she didn't have anything yesterday either) just fluids for now. Then I'll start with baby food & Critical/Carnivore Care to go easy on her system for a while before we get into anything else. Thanks for the recommendation AHBD!

As for the soft food recommendation, so much for my 3000+ dubia colony :roll: I suppose I'll either have to sell them off or just get another dragon to feed them to :twisted: I have contacted Mulberry Farms & asked a few questions about dubias v.s. horn and/or silk worm equivalents plus how to care for them.

A special thanks to everyone here who has helped me through this and everything else I've been through with my girls. I especially don't know how I would've survived the loss of my little Monster without all of you. Thank you guys so much - I don't know if I could ever put my gratitude into words properly.

 

[Esther19]

I wonder if it would be okay for you to put your dubia with some greens in a slurry?

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

I wonder if it would be okay for you to put your dubia with some greens in a slurry?

I thought about that too, but ewwww lol my boyfriend would definitely be the one cleaning that blender out haha! Probably be cheaper than switching to worms though :dontknow:

I hope my little Lotus is ok at home, updates in a few hours!

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Lotus seems to be doing ok, but has lost a lot of weight and looks kind of deflated ...thankfully I had gotten her to a good hefty weight before all this started. When she's in her tank, all she does is bask - more than I've ever seen her do so. I'm thinking the heat must be helping her digestive system along. She is a little bit weak, but had enough energy to run away from her meds today :| I planned on feeding her on Thursday, but she hasn't had anything in her system since this past Friday. I'm not sure if that's too long to withhold food. I'll probably start with some baby food on Thursday & maybe some Critical Care on Friday. Eventually I'll try to advance to some greens slurries and a few soft bugs. I'm just so scared of giving her too much too fast again. This is so hard because I have no idea how worried to be... she seems mostly fine, but I can't be sure that everything will work out in the end. I stare at her and talk to her & pet her for a good while before I go to bed, as if it may be the last time I see her. I just don't know how to feel about all this. I've certainly had my fair share of dragon grief, this just isn't fair

 

[AHBD]

I know that nervous feeling you get when a pet is sick....you just want improvement, especially when you've recently lost one. I'm just wondering if you want to try a freshly shed dubia. I'd hate to give you bad advice....but I think if she shows interest in live food you can try. But do what you feel comfortable with, baby food or critical care. I hope to hear that she does better and this was just a fluke.

 

[SpikesAgirl]

Xtina, I really think extra heat makes them feel better. It's kind of like when we get a fever, she's helping herself fight off whatever it is. Maybe making the critical care a little more runny will be easier on her tummy? Just a thought as Critical Care has more roughage than Carnivore Care which is more protein based. Baby food can be a little thick too, I'd water it down with electolytes, which ever one you choose, and give her a teensy bit at first to see how she does with it. I wouldn't start out with a whole syringe full, little bits at a time. This is just how I would go about it, doesn't mean it's RIGHT. Others may have a better idea... Keeping you in my thoughts!

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

I know that nervous feeling you get when a pet is sick....you just want improvement, especially when you've recently lost one. I'm just wondering if you want to try a freshly shed dubia. I'd hate to give you bad advice....but I think if she shows interest in live food you can try. But do what you feel comfortable with, baby food or critical care. I hope to hear that she does better and this was just a fluke.

Thanks for understanding, it really means a lot to me. I actually asked Tracie about giving her a newly molted white dubia and she said it would be ok... just still not sure when it will be ok. Your well wishes and the help are much appreciated from Lotus & myself.

Xtina, I really think extra heat makes them feel better. It's kind of like when we get a fever, she's helping herself fight off whatever it is. Maybe making the critical care a little more runny will be easier on her tummy? Just a thought as Critical Care has more roughage than Carnivore Care which is more protein based. Baby food can be a little thick too, I'd water it down with electolytes, which ever one you choose, and give her a teensy bit at first to see how she does with it. I wouldn't start out with a whole syringe full, little bits at a time. This is just how I would go about it, doesn't mean it's RIGHT. Others may have a better idea... Keeping you in my thoughts!

Thank you for your suggestions, I think I'll try a little bit of everything you said. The stuff I use is 2/3 Critical Care and 1/3 Carnivore Care, so hopefully that works for her. I never thought to water down the baby food, that's probably a good idea. How much do you think I should try at first? Like 1mL/cc? I have 4 different sized syringes from 0.5cc to 10cc. I have all different kinds of baby food (chicken, turkey, squash, sweet potato, green bean, apple)... is there a certain kind I should give her? I think you're right about the heat too. I hope it's making her feel better, but sometimes she's been getting really dark in color when she basks, guess she's trying to absorb more heat.