Lamp fell on Kevin!

[AHBD]

I don't have any helpful ideas about raising the floor but I would still recommend a simple clear plastic tote like I have here. It's big enough for a heat gradient but small enough for everything to be close [ lights over the top, etc. ] The tote would only be about $8-$10 at Walmart, Dollar store, etc. Choose one with low sides so the uvb can go right across the top and the heat bulb can just set on a screen like this :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/29953/full
Metacam is probably causing his loss of appetite....it's too bad that he needs t take it in case of swelling in the spine. You can try a few things that may get him to eat and also coat his tummy. Soy yogurt from Walmart [ fruit flavored ] seems to be something that beardies like. Then mix it with some green bean or chicken [ no gravy ] baby food. Or ask the vet for some critical care formula [ I can't remember if you have some ] and mix the yogurt with that.

I've read on a few veterinary forums that some animals, including beardies, can get over a spinal cord swelling/injury in time. I know you don't want false hope but it's too soon to determine that he is beyond help. It may go either way, but there is still hope at the moment. My heart goes out to you + your daughter, it's obvious that she's like you with a tender + broken heart full of concern for your Kevin.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

So sorry for little Kevin, but, at least his leg has healed up to where you can keep the cast
off of that leg.
I am wondering, just how much calcium is he getting? They can get too much calcium which
can cause issues that mimic a calcium deficiency. It can cause softening of the bones & for
nodules to develop on the spinal column or rib areas.
I think you should give just one form of calcium, without any other source or form. Did the
vet dose out the liquid calcium for you, per his weight? Try giving that once daily, 5 times per
week, without any other calcium.
A spinal injury is a possibility, yes. Depending on the severity, they can recover from them.
If there is swelling on or around the spine it will take awhile for it to go down in order for
the mobility to improve.
If he doesn't seem to be in pain, by exhibiting a black beard, hissing, etc then I agree, I don't
recommend euthanizing him. He can pass on his own terms, at home with you, IF it came to
that. A lot of dragons are special needs dragons. I think it's way too early to give up though,
they can go against all types of odds to come back, it's amazing the spirit they have.
Remind me how close his light is to him? The T8 just may not be enough, a lot of times they
aren't. The T5 should greatly help if there are any calcium issues going on.
I am sorry your poor phoenix worms are having a tour of Florida...how aggravating! It's a good
thing it isn't freezing there or they definitely wouldn't make it!
I am sorry he is having so much trouble right now. I hope he isn't developing a respiratory
infection also. As a precaution, keep him around 80 overnight in his tank to help boost his
immune system.

Let us kow how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[KevinsMama]

Alright! That was great! I woke up at 3am & couldn't get back to sleep. Gave up & checked my phone to see all this awesomeness! Thank you guys! Not only for the replies & advice, but for the hope & confidence.

Here we go: AHBD, what size tub is that? I can't tell from the pic but I have a clear 16g spare from my failed cricket breeding. So that could completely work out! And what kind/watt bulb do you use? I've actually seen your setup in many other posts but never considered it an option. Good idea! Do you think it would be an issue to move him around in it? I ask because he is currently set up in my bedroom but I spend 90% of my day in the garage with the door open. The other 10% is spent running into my room to check on him 100x a day. So if I could bring him out here with me when we get up & take him in for bedtime, that'd be insanely awesome!

If 16g is too small, I'll gladly pick up an appropriate size today. I'll be going to Wal-Mart later to grab some yogurt anyway. I think he's just pulling hunger strikes for hornworms honestly cause he will attack those without fail!

Now: Tracie, thank you so much. I never even thought TOO MUCH calcium could be the culprit but if I'm not mistaken, he didn't start declining until I started giving the Flukers Liquid also. I was so worried he wasn't getting enough for his leg that o never thought I could give him too much. As of now, every thing that goes in his mouth is dusted plus the prescription liquid once a day. Is there a way of telling he's getting too much? I know it's something to do with his urate but I've been so caught up in whether he even poops to check. Oh, that would make so much sense! His prescription is does for his weight and I honestly would feel more comfortable just giving him that as you suggested and seeing how it goes.

My BSFL finally came yesterday but guess what? He won't touch them?! He did this with the Calciworms from Petco but they were all on the brink of death so I just assumed that was it. Nope. I think he's just playing me like a fiddle when it comes to eating. Or it could be he knows he's got too much calcium & won't touch anything I dust. Possibility? I do tend to give in and offer everything I have on hand when he turns away from everything else. I'm not sure of I have it in me to deny him anything right now, but I'm going to try to hold out today. If he won't eat at breakfast, I'm just going to put some BSFL in a dish for him so he can have it if he gets too hungry. I'll feel better if he has the choice. I have been able to get him to scoot a little ways by dropping mealworms a little out of his reach so I know if he wants it bad enough, he'll get to it.

Hopefully the t5 comes today. It arrived in my city yesterday so it should. Unless of course they decided to send it all around Florida also!

I definitely will NOT be euthanizing him. I agree that it's too soon to tell. She wants me to decide by the end of the week. So she wants to give him 1 week to improve. That's not enough. Especially when we're not 100% sure what's even going on & to what degree. She never even asked if he shows signs of pain. Just straight to oh, he can't walk, he is suffering & won't make it. Had me & my daughter all tore up. I paid her to help me figure it out, not just go straight to giving up. I'd like a second opinion but I'm not sure I can even find another experienced vet. If she even is as experienced as I thought. And I can't afford it right now. My husband's check this Friday should be a pretty hefty one so I think I'm going to start looking around. How do I find out if they're "worthy"? Is there certain questions I can ask over the phone? Or do I just she'll out the money & see how it goes?

Again, thank you so much. I know I will get sad & doubtful as the day goes on, I always do, but this day couldn't have started out better!

 

[KevinsMama]

So.... after 3hrs of reading here, I have a huge question...

What are the symptoms of a D3 overdose? His calcium has D3. His poo has had an orangish tint to it a couple of times. I feel like I've figured it out. But I can't find anyone confirming a D3 OR calcium overdose & stating the symptoms. Only thing I found is the orange tinted urate & sure enough, I know Kevin's has been a few times in the past week.

I've seen that a D3 o'd takes time. He's been with me nearly 2 months, so not very long. But SO SO much has went badly during the short time.

So here's to hoping that's what it is, I've caught it & can fix it. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[AHBD]

A 16 gallon tote is perfect. It can be taken + set up anywhere you go that has electricity and can be set out in the sun on 70ish degree days. [ Any hotter than 75 is generally getting too hot in the plastic tote so artificial shade must be provided ] Any bright white bulb from Walmart will do for a basking bulb. Halogen bulbs like par 38 seem to be the most widely used by the keepers on this forum. I buy bulbs in at least 2-4 packs in case one burns out.

From what I've read, D3 toxicity causes lethargy, lack of appetite and possible calcification of organs + joints. But the lethargy + weakness is a sign of soooo many conditions and I'm sure that if he DOES have D3 toxicity it's no where near these dangerous levels that would cause the calcification of his organs.

 

[KevinsMama]

He's moved into the tub now. I set it up almost exactly like your pic, AHBD. Except I don't have any screen strong enough to support a lamp so I'm using his screen from the 10g. Works perfect. Just playing with all my 900 basking bulbs to see which one gets optimum temps.

We had a very bad scare right before I moved him into it. Actually the reason I rushed him into it. I went to go grab my keys to run to the store & Kevin was on his back. Completely. When I seen him from across the room, he was motionless. As I got closer he was flailing wildly trying to right himself. I flipped him over then set up the tub so he can be beside me all the time. I don't know what happened & I can't believe I went in there at just the right moment and was able to help him. I've read that Beardies can't breathe on their backs, correct? So, what would cause him to do this? There was NOTHING for him to have tried to climb. He had pooped (urate definitely has orange tint) & i guess he tried to move away & went belly up. Ive been watching him for 2hrs now & hes only tried to move once but he did tip over sideways then gave up. So I see flipping over a huge possibility right now. I just hope it doesn't happen when I'm not around. He's probably gonna be going to stores with me and everything now. How long can they be on their backs before suffering damage?

He's in his "sunshine cage" now. It's my daughters hamsters spare cage lol. I tried just sitting his tub in the sun but the temp was 115 so I was afraid it would rise more as the day warms up. Strange thing is it's only 59° right now. But his temps in the hamster cage is staying at 100°. Weird Florida weather lol.

On a lighter note, I received the death glare this morning when I turned his lights on an hour earlier than normal. Snapped a pic to share...

He was not happy with me at all!

 

[lunaeclispe]

omg poor poor Kevin!!!!! he will defiantly be in my prayers!!! from me and luna plz get better Kevin!! send lot of pics and updates!! :love5: :love5:

 

[AHBD]

Poor Kevin, loss of coordination can be caused by several things but is also a side effect of Meloxicam. How long has he been on it altogether ?

 

[KevinsMama]

omg poor poor Kevin!!!!! he will defiantly be in my prayers!!! from me and luna plz get better Kevin!! send lot of pics and updates!! :love5: :love5:

Thank you!

He was on the meloxicam for 10days right 3weeks ago. Now he's had 3 doses. But this was a different vet at the same office & she doubled the dose from the previous one. He has gained weight since then also. I'm pretty sure that's what caused the flip. He's holding his tail differently & moving a lot less. I don't think he's getting worse from whatever is going on, just feeling the side affects. Gave me a slight heart attack tho!

 

[KevinsMama]

Got some soy yogurt & chicken baby food. Do I just mix some of it up & feed it to him? Or do I need to warm it & all that mess?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Is he still on the meloxicam? If so, I would go back down to the original dose, because it sounds like
that is definitely bothering him.
I recommend using just the calcium your vet got you, per the dose given. What is the strength of the calcium? The flipping is odd & really sounds a lot like calcium issues, more than just a spinal injury, to me, but, I could be wrong. You mentioned his decline started after you added the
Zilla calcium? That is strange. Let's see how he does on just the liquid calcium 4-5 days per week, once daly right now.
Just be sure the baby food is not cold, but doesn't necessarily have to be heated. Room temperature is good & the soy yogurt can be mixed in with it, or given apart from food. You can drip it onto his nose or put a dab on your finger & see if he will lick that off. He should love the flavor, too.
I definitely think he can improve! He may be a special needs dragon for awhile, but hopefully he
will recover. Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[KevinsMama]

Just want to do a quick update on Kevin.

He is doing extremely well today compared to these past couple days. I'm taking Tracie's advice & cutting back on calcium. I've not dusted anything, even tho he's barely eaten & yesterday I didn't give him the liquid calcium either. He looked & acted so bad yesterday, I just knew he wouldn't make it thru the night. After he had about 2 hours to warm up this morning, I took him out & sat him in my lap. He made his 1st movement ! He actually pulled himself closer to my belly. (It pokes out a lot right now lol) he then ate 3 bsfl, really convinced he doesnt like these. Then I decided to try a cricket & he snapped that thing up like crazy! He only ate 4 but paired with 3 BSFL, this is good. I couldn't even get him to eat anything yesterday aside from a couple drops of Baby food + yogurt.

He was so perky, just looking around & so much brighter eyes! I haven't given him any Metacam or his calcium yet because I'm confused on why he looks better. As far as the Metacam, right now it seems to be making him worse. The calcium, I'm just waiting on a poo so I can check his urate out before giving it to him.

My husband was messing with the injured leg & we noticed it's incredibly stiff. He did a little P.T. on it & it loosened up a lot. I also got him to raise up his chest & support himself, not for long but it was kinda miraculous lol.

So, today is a good day! Yay Kevin! ?

 

[AHBD]

Good for you ! And good for Kevin. Remember, with a spinal injury things can change from day to day.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is excellent news to hear Kevin had such a great day today!
So, he loved his crickets? LOL That is a good sign he had interest in food & was moving
around some also. I really hope that decreasing the meloxicam & possibly taking him off
of it, along with the backing off of excess calcium helps him out.
I am really thinking it has been an overload on his system. I am sure his leg/joint is stiff
from being injured. If therapy can be done daily it should loosen it up while it finishes
healing up.
Maybe he will start trying to move himself more so he can get stronger! Bless him.
If he has another good day, without the meloxicam, maybe you should discontinue it. You
could give him a week off from any calcium at all, letting his body detox for a bit. Then,
restart only the calcium from the vet, once daily 4-5 times per week.
Please keep us posted on him. It is encouraging news today.

Tracie

 

[AHBD]

How's he doing ? You know there's a basketball player named after him...Kevin Love.