Just adopted this dude

[Bobbyhill]

This is Pablo a sweet but slightly crazy approximately 2.5 year old boy. I adopted him a few days ago.


I received him in a 40 gallon enclosure with a walnut shell a substrate and he has not had his UVB changed until when I adopted him a few days ago, I have ordered a 4x2x2 enclosure front opening PVC enclosure with a screen top. I plan on changing his substate later today in the meantime while i wait for his larger enclosure which I am debating on going a sterile tile route or going bioactive. Also in his new enclosure I plan on placing a tube UVB bulb inside the enclosure I am thinking arcadia 10.0 or reptisun.

Surprisingly he seems like a healthy dragon from what I can tell doesnt look like he has MBD. Although i think his femoral pores may be clogged, and he has a little stuck shed I have given him one bath and i planned on giving another later today. He has a bit of an appetite not as much as id like to see though and he has pooped twice.

Anyways any tips on how to care for this dude and give him a great home would be greatly appreciated. He is my first beardy but I’ve had a few different reptiles and amphibians over the years. (Corn snake, a few frogs, and leopard geckos)

Oh and if anyone in the Vancouver WA area with the time and space to take his brother I think the previous owner may still have his brother and he is also in need of a loving home(Same living conditions, I would take him myself but I do not have the space)

 

[Rubble1212]

This is Pablo a sweet but slightly crazy approximately 2.5 year old boy. I adopted him a few days ago.


I received him in a 40 gallon enclosure with a walnut shell a substrate and he has not had his UVB changed until when I adopted him a few days ago, I have ordered a 4x2x2 enclosure front opening PVC enclosure with a screen top. I plan on changing his substate later today in the meantime while i wait for his larger enclosure which I am debating on going a sterile tile route or going bioactive. Also in his new enclosure I plan on placing a tube UVB bulb inside the enclosure I am thinking arcadia 10.0 or reptisun.

Surprisingly he seems like a healthy dragon from what I can tell doesnt look like he has MBD. Although i think his femoral pores may be clogged, and he has a little stuck shed I have given him one bath and i planned on giving another later today. He has a bit of an appetite not as much as id like to see though and he has pooped twice.

Anyways any tips on how to care for this dude and give him a great home would be greatly appreciated. He is my first beardy but I’ve had a few different reptiles and amphibians over the years. (Corn snake, a few frogs, and leopard geckos)

Oh and if anyone in the Vancouver WA area with the time and space to take his brother I think the previous owner may still have his brother and he is also in need of a loving home(Same living conditions, I would take him myself but I do not have the space)

That’s really cool you took him into your home he’ll be able to relax and he’ll know he’s in his forever home. As far as uvb I’d personally go with an Arcadia t5 12% as long as you can be in the 12-14 inch range from bulb to basking surface. Check out lightyourreptiles.com call the number and ask for Todd he’s a US supplier of Arcadia products he’s super nice and knows his stuff and you can tell him about your enclosure and distance to basking surface etc. then he’ll tell you exactly what you need. As far as substrate I use a faux rock shelf liner it’s easy to clean and cheap to replace a few times a year. You’ll get a lot of people saying using a more natural substrate will cause impaction but personally I use a sand/topsoil mix for my dragons and my skinks. Home Depot organic topsoil bag is like 4$ and a bag of washed play sand is 7$ and in a 4x2x2 you can have enough to clean out and put new in a couple times of year. But I’ll probably get blasted for suggesting a natural substrate.

 

[KarrieRee]

This is Pablo a sweet but slightly crazy approximately 2.5 year old boy. I adopted him a few days ago.


I received him in a 40 gallon enclosure with a walnut shell a substrate and he has not had his UVB changed until when I adopted him a few days ago, I have ordered a 4x2x2 enclosure front opening PVC enclosure with a screen top. I plan on changing his substate later today in the meantime while i wait for his larger enclosure which I am debating on going a sterile tile route or going bioactive. Also in his new enclosure I plan on placing a tube UVB bulb inside the enclosure I am thinking arcadia 10.0 or reptisun.

Surprisingly he seems like a healthy dragon from what I can tell doesnt look like he has MBD. Although i think his femoral pores may be clogged, and he has a little stuck shed I have given him one bath and i planned on giving another later today. He has a bit of an appetite not as much as id like to see though and he has pooped twice.

Anyways any tips on how to care for this dude and give him a great home would be greatly appreciated. He is my first beardy but I’ve had a few different reptiles and amphibians over the years. (Corn snake, a few frogs, and leopard geckos)

Oh and if anyone in the Vancouver WA area with the time and space to take his brother I think the previous owner may still have his brother and he is also in need of a loving home(Same living conditions, I would take him myself but I do not have the space)

This is Pablo a sweet but slightly crazy approximately 2.5 year old boy. I adopted him a few days ago.


I received him in a 40 gallon enclosure with a walnut shell a substrate and he has not had his UVB changed until when I adopted him a few days ago, I have ordered a 4x2x2 enclosure front opening PVC enclosure with a screen top. I plan on changing his substate later today in the meantime while i wait for his larger enclosure which I am debating on going a sterile tile route or going bioactive. Also in his new enclosure I plan on placing a tube UVB bulb inside the enclosure I am thinking arcadia 10.0 or reptisun.

Surprisingly he seems like a healthy dragon from what I can tell doesnt look like he has MBD. Although i think his femoral pores may be clogged, and he has a little stuck shed I have given him one bath and i planned on giving another later today. He has a bit of an appetite not as much as id like to see though and he has pooped twice.

Anyways any tips on how to care for this dude and give him a great home would be greatly appreciated. He is my first beardy but I’ve had a few different reptiles and amphibians over the years. (Corn snake, a few frogs, and leopard geckos)

Oh and if anyone in the Vancouver WA area with the time and space to take his brother I think the previous owner may still have his brother and he is also in need of a loving home(Same living conditions, I would take him myself but I do not have the space)

Please get rid of the walnut shell substrate --- it is toxic to dragons --- please replace w/ some paper towels or some textured NON adhesive shelf liner cut to the size of the tank you can find it at your local home improvement store or Walmart - but please get rid of it ASAP

 

[Rubble1212]

Please get rid of the walnut shell substrate --- it is toxic to dragons --- please replace w/ some paper towels or some textured NON adhesive shelf liner cut to the size of the tank you can find it at your local home improvement store or Walmart - but please get rid of it ASAP

I think if you actually read the OP’s post again he said he was replacing it today. Please read the whole post before you blast someone. He’s changing the substrate and he clearly stated that in his post. I apologize some of our members don’t read the entire post before blasting someone who’s new and trying to do the right thing. We should be grateful that he cares enough to take this beardie in and give him a good home and not be so cold and harsh and demanding. If you need any sound advice please reach out.

 

[Bobbyhill]

That’s really cool you took him into your home he’ll be able to relax and he’ll know he’s in his forever home. As far as uvb I’d personally go with an Arcadia t5 12% as long as you can be in the 12-14 inch range from bulb to basking surface. Check out lightyourreptiles.com call the number and ask for Todd he’s a US supplier of Arcadia products he’s super nice and knows his stuff and you can tell him about your enclosure and distance to basking surface etc. then he’ll tell you exactly what you need. As far as substrate I use a faux rock shelf liner it’s easy to clean and cheap to replace a few times a year. You’ll get a lot of people saying using a more natural substrate will cause impaction but personally I use a sand/topsoil mix for my dragons and my skinks. Home Depot organic topsoil bag is like 4$ and a bag of washed play sand is 7$ and in a 4x2x2 you can have enough to clean out and put new in a couple times of year. But I’ll probably get blasted for suggesting a natural substrate.

Thank you so much for the information amazon says the enclosure will be here Feb 10 I plan on building it that day and hopefully having him moved in by the 11th at the latest, I can set up my UVB light so its about 12” from the basking site so I will check into the 12% uvb arcadia bulb, would you say I need to purchase a Solarmeter(UVB meter) or would I be fine just changing the UVB bulb every 6 months?

 

[Bobbyhill]

I think if you actually read the OP’s post again he said he was replacing it today. Please read the whole post before you blast someone. He’s changing the substrate and he clearly stated that in his post. I apologize some of our members don’t read the entire post before blasting someone who’s new and trying to do the right thing. We should be grateful that he cares enough to take this beardie in and give him a good home and not be so cold and harsh and demanding. If you need any sound advice please reach out.

No worries I get it some people are rude, and thank you

 

[Rubble1212]

No worries I get it some people are rude, and thank you

I think if you change the bulb every 10 months or so you’d be just fine. They say 1 year on Arcadia bulbs but just to be safe I always do 10 months but that’s just me. A solar metercan pay for itself over time but sometimes the bulbs will need to be changed anyway but it’s a good piece of kit to have to setup basking distances but it’s certainly not necessary and very expensive. I’ve had beardies and blue tongue skinks for years now and I’ve never purchased one but if you can swing it then it’d be nice.

 

[Badwolfe]

You can replace the substrate with a topsoil / sand blend and it is perfectly safe for dragons as long as your temps and lighting are correct.

I know a lot of people on here insist on tile / carpet / towels for substrate but theres a lot of recent research out there starting to show that these types of substrates can impact on the joints of your lizard long term and cause serious health issues. They are also bacteria traps too.

I have owned Beardies and many other reptile species for nearly 4 decades and have always kept my animals on loose substrates (to match the ones they thrive on in the wild) and have never once had a case of impaction. I'm a big advocate of keeping my reptiles in an environment that matches their natural habitat as closely as possible and i am not a fan of the 'clinical' set ups a lot of people favour today. An animal in its natural environment with good care should remain a healthy and stress free specimen whilst being able to display all its natural behaviours.

 

[beardie]

I am debating on going a sterile tile route or going bioactive.

I personally am a fan of the tile choice.

I've certainly made my share of mistakes or poor choices when I first got into bearded dragons. Bioactive wasn't really a thing when I last had beardies (these days, I just run the site; no beardies), so I can't offer anything input on that. Sounds interesting, but also worry that a bioactive environment that meets the more native (i.e. natural) environment for a bearded dragon would be challenging. I've seen some bioactive habitats look like they're for tropical reptiles which always made me wonder about excessive moisture and humidity.

Another option I have only recently seen was a sort of reptile carpet that has actual dirt/sand adhered to it. It looked so much like dirt I thought they just had dirt in their enclosure. I do not recall the name of it, though. It had a nice natural aesthetic without the risk of particulates and was told it was easy to clean. I've always maintained that people need to manage the risk for their pets with their own choices. Those with more experience tend to understand and make informed choices about those risks. But for anyone new to keeping a bearded dragon, I always suggest being more cautious until experience sets in.

The issue with particulates is not that it "will" kill your beardie. It's that there is a real risk of impaction for many beardies, which can result in death. Not all and not a certainty. I had my 3 dragons on various particulates for probably 3-4 years before deciding the risk was unnecessary when I had options that were easier to clean, smelled less, and didn't come with the risk at all (I switched to slate tiles). I even tried out some clay/sand stuff that, when dries doesn't have much loose particulate, looked natural, and allowed for digging. I would spray down anything that got loosened, and let it dry hard again (or vacuum out loose bits). I stopped that because it is expensive and wasn't worth doing when the first stuff got pooed on too many times (can't clean it really)

The topic of substrates (especially particulate) is probably the most hotly debated one in the 20+ years I've been on the site. For anyone new to keeping beardies, I will always suggest going the safer route.

As for KarrieRee, I wouldn't take any offense, and I hope that you see her good-intention behind her comment. Very often people come here with animals who are sick or have problems because of improper environment or care (usually out of ignorance, not intentional neglect), and some of the first things needing to be changed in their setups are with an urgency.

I agree with her that until you decide on the long term substrate plan, I'd suggest getting rid of the walnut shell. I think it's a specific type of walnut that had been found to be particularly toxic. I can't find the references about it specific to beardies, but remember this being a big deal a handful of years back. I think it was black walnut. It has to do with the level of a toxin (juglone) that they contain, but I think most walnuts have varying degrees of it. Again, in this case, it is more the question of whether it is worth any of the risk, if alternatives can be used.


Anyway... welcome to BeardedDragon.org. As you can see... people here are passionate. And while we may not all agree on the various choices... I think we all agree that we care about bearded dragons!

 

[beardie]

I think this thread has given me an idea on a possible article listing a bunch of the various substrates with objective information on pros and cons (with supporting links, if it can be found).

They all have their cons. Even the ones that are more like their natural environment (which mind you doesn't have much "loose" dirt... it's hard packed and has a lot of clay component) have their cons. As I noted, I tried one that is actually very close to natural environment. The challenge with it was that it was hard to clean. And while close to their natural environment, in nature, there's much more square footage to go poop and rub oils on (femoral pores) and not worry about the cleanliness and bacterial levels. As hobbyists of captive pets, we need to find a good balance between natural to them (and their instincts) and manageable in a confined space ('cause it's not natural to be in a 4x2x2 enclosure).

 

[Rubble1212]

I personally am a fan of the tile choice.

I've certainly made my share of mistakes or poor choices when I first got into bearded dragons. Bioactive wasn't really a thing when I last had beardies (these days, I just run the site; no beardies), so I can't offer anything input on that. Sounds interesting, but also worry that a bioactive environment that meets the more native (i.e. natural) environment for a bearded dragon would be challenging. I've seen some bioactive habitats look like they're for tropical reptiles which always made me wonder about excessive moisture and humidity.

Another option I have only recently seen was a sort of reptile carpet that has actual dirt/sand adhered to it. It looked so much like dirt I thought they just had dirt in their enclosure. I do not recall the name of it, though. It had a nice natural aesthetic without the risk of particulates and was told it was easy to clean. I've always maintained that people need to manage the risk for their pets with their own choices. Those with more experience tend to understand and make informed choices about those risks. But for anyone new to keeping a bearded dragon, I always suggest being more cautious until experience sets in.

The issue with particulates is not that it "will" kill your beardie. It's that there is a real risk of impaction for many beardies, which can result in death. Not all and not a certainty. I had my 3 dragons on various particulates for probably 3-4 years before deciding the risk was unnecessary when I had options that were easier to clean, smelled less, and didn't come with the risk at all (I switched to slate tiles). I even tried out some clay/sand stuff that, when dries doesn't have much loose particulate, looked natural, and allowed for digging. I would spray down anything that got loosened, and let it dry hard again (or vacuum out loose bits). I stopped that because it is expensive and wasn't worth doing when the first stuff got pooed on too many times (can't clean it really)

The topic of substrates (especially particulate) is probably the most hotly debated one in the 20+ years I've been on the site. For anyone new to keeping beardies, I will always suggest going the safer route.

As for KarrieRee, I wouldn't take any offense, and I hope that you see her good-intention behind her comment. Very often people come here with animals who are sick or have problems because of improper environment or care (usually out of ignorance, not intentional neglect), and some of the first things needing to be changed in their setups are with an urgency.

I agree with her that until you decide on the long term substrate plan, I'd suggest getting rid of the walnut shell. I think it's a specific type of walnut that had been found to be particularly toxic. I can't find the references about it specific to beardies, but remember this being a big deal a handful of years back. I think it was black walnut. It has to do with the level of a toxin (juglone) that they contain, but I think most walnuts have varying degrees of it. Again, in this case, it is more the question of whether it is worth any of the risk, if alternatives can be used.


Anyway... welcome to BeardedDragon.org. As you can see... people here are passionate. And while we may not all agree on the various choices... I think we all agree that we care about bearded dragons!

Instead of defending her intentions and obviously covering for her just tell her she needs to change her approach and stop being so damn insensitive and demanding people to do things. There are other more helpful ways to do this. I’ve had several newbie’s reach out to me after getting comments from kerrieree and have spoken at lengths with people about her comments. I for one am sick of reading her crap and you need to address this with her not defend her.

 

[beardie]

Instead of defending her intentions and obviously covering for her just tell her she needs to change her approach and stop being so damn insensitive and demanding people to do things.

Who's to say this conversation hasn't occurred in a more appropriate manner? And I'm not covering for anyone. We all have our own ways to interacting with others. And while a bit abrupt, I have not seen her interactions cross over into being flat out rude. I do find the irony amusing that you're "telling me" how to handle the situation of someone who is "telling people" what to do.

 

[Badwolfe]

I think this thread has given me an idea on a possible article listing a bunch of the various substrates with objective information on pros and cons (with supporting links, if it can be found).

They all have their cons. Even the ones that are more like their natural environment (which mind you doesn't have much "loose" dirt... it's hard packed and has a lot of clay component) have their cons. As I noted, I tried one that is actually very close to natural environment. The challenge with it was that it was hard to clean. And while close to their natural environment, in nature, there's much more square footage to go poop and rub oils on (femoral pores) and not worry about the cleanliness and bacterial levels. As hobbyists of captive pets, we need to find a good balance between natural to them (and their instincts) and manageable in a confined space ('cause it's not natural to be in a 4x2x2 enclosure).

The bearded dragon habitats in Australia run from dusty, high clay content soil to quite loamy areas. Although they are an arid species they do exist in areas where there are plenty of trees which result in a softer soil substrate. No Bearded Dragon in Australia spends its entire life on solid hard surfaces - they are semi arboreal and spend a lot of time digging in loose soil too. This is why tile and other hard surfaces is starting to be linked to joint problems in dragons because its an unnatrual environment for them.

I have a friend who lives in NSW and regularly has wild Beardies in her garden - she's been a font of information for me on the local habitat they live in near her

 

[beardie]

spend a lot of time digging in loose soil too

I've never seen a picture of a bearded dragon in the wild that is in truly loose soils. Certainly there are loose parts to it, and it can be dug into as they burrow. But most soil/dirt in nature is packed down naturally. Even around trees (we do have them here). Some parts of my back yard would actually be pretty good for beardies, as it is just dirt with a high clay content that naturally is packed down. Again, that has loose stuff, and can be dug into with helps naturally trim their nails (also a fan of that). Actually, when I had my beardies on sand early on and they dug, it didn't give them the resistance. The sand would move and partly fall back into the hole they were working on. When I tried a substrate that dried hardened and packed (more like naturally packed dirt with a high clay component), their digging was more productive, and they seemed satisfied with digging. When too loose, they would dig for hours. I suspected it was because their instinct wasn't really being met with loose. Granted, tile doesn't offer that ability to dig either. In the end, my last beardie had a combination of tile and the packed dirt/clay compound (where they would dig).

When I refer to loose particulate, I'm referring to things like sand, or the walnut shell substrates. Those are truly loose... like sand at a beach or the Sahara desert. And this is far too often what people put their beardies on. That is not natural for them either. I am actually a fan of natural where possible, but also in reducing the risks that have been seen in captivity (because of captivity conditions).

 

[Badwolfe]

I've never seen a picture of a bearded dragon in the wild that is in truly loose soils. Certainly there are loose parts to it, and it can be dug into as they burrow. But most soil/dirt in nature is packed down naturally. Even around trees (we do have them here). Some parts of my back yard would actually be pretty good for beardies, as it is just dirt with a high clay content that naturally is packed down. Again, that has loose stuff, and can be dug into with helps naturally trim their nails (also a fan of that). Actually, when I had my beardies on sand early on and they dug, it didn't give them the resistance. The sand would move and partly fall back into the hole they were working on. When I tried a substrate that dried hardened and packed (more like naturally packed dirt with a high clay component), their digging was more productive, and they seemed satisfied with digging. When too loose, they would dig for hours. I suspected it was because their instinct wasn't really being met with loose. Granted, tile doesn't offer that ability to dig either. In the end, my last beardie had a combination of tile and the packed dirt/clay compound (where they would dig).

When I refer to loose particulate, I'm referring to things like sand, or the walnut shell substrates. Those are truly loose... like sand at a beach or the Sahara desert. And this is far too often what people put their beardies on. That is not natural for them either. I am actually a fan of natural where possible, but also in reducing the risks that have been seen in captivity (because of captivity conditions).

Yeah the term loose soil doesn't literally mean it's soft and crumbly like tilled earth it just refers to soils that are not hard packed to the point they are nigh impossible to dig in

Dragons dont live on hard packed soils as is displayed by the soil conditions they need to lay their eggs in. Its not like they have laying boxes scattered about the Outback