Issues continue, lots of questions.

[Woodsman]

SLDragon - no "formal" diagnosis, vet said pre MBD brought on by malnutrition. His eating habits were most likely brought on by a severe mouth infection. The vet really worked with me, we went over pics of the enclosure, his habits before the problems began, etc.

Derz - thanks for the words of encouragement. I'm taking the vet's opinion to heart. She said she's seen babies come back from this so I'll do what I can... although it's heartbreaking to watch.

 

[Woodsman]

So, the drama continues.

He isn't wanting to keep warm, moving out of the basking area and staying on the cool side most of the day. Today his poop basically just looked like Critical Care... came out the same as it went in.

I'm worried he may not be able to efficiently regulate his temperature, causing digestive issues. Should I intervene by moving him into the warm side? Should I heat the entire enclosure into the 90s and reduce the basking heat?

Thanks for all the support, again.

 

[CooperDragon]

I'd continue to provide a choice and let him pick what he needs. I found that with soft foods like critical care or baby food, the poop takes on the same color and consistency. When I was offering squash baby food to one of my guys it turned his poop orange for a while.

 

[SLDragon]

I wouldn't move him, imo it would be dangerous to second guess the lizards needs a risk causing him to overheat. Remember you're dealing with an ectotherm, being able to cool down is as important as being able to warm up. Do try and analyse if there could be anything other than thermo-regulation causing him to shy away from the hot end.

Has the vet carried out x-rays and performed blood work on the lizard?

 

[AHBD]

If you replace that pet store basking platform and put in a nice slanted piece of wood he might stay under the light longer. A beardie will always get too hot on a plastic, ceramic or tile basking platform. In the wild they would almost always be basking on wood or in a large shrub.

 

[Woodsman]

She said xrays would be inconclusive on a lizard his size (bones too small, wouldn't show on the xray) and couldn't draw blood for the same reason (cannot collect a large enough sample). He's only 12g, so those options are limited.

I haven't done any intervention as of yet, I try to leave him alone as much as possible... the syringe feedings and medication are certainly enough stress... that's why I'm here asking questions I'm just dealing with a VERY crippled lizard who may not be able to act in his own best interests, and I'm nervous about when to act and when to let things play out on their own.

 

[Woodsman]

The basking platform is gone now, he literally cannot climb... anything. The tank is completely empty except for the hide.

The bottom is tile though, so maybe that could be an issue? I could try a piece of 1/4" ply or something int here. The IR heat gun puts the basking spot (on the tile) at 106-107 since it's slightly lower than before.

 

[AHBD]

Yes, best to cover it up. You can use a couple sheets of newspaper or some non adhesive shelf liner. And I apologize but I've forgotten if you said you were able to get him in the sun ?

 

[SLDragon]

Ok
Understood, i don't know whether that is correct on the x-ray part. Although i must say this concept of pre-mbd seems a little nebulous. Was there any talk of calcium gluconate injections?

To also confirm, there is no risk that you were over supplementing with dietary D3?

How's the little guy doing on the hydration front?

 

[Woodsman]

AHBD - yes, he's been getting 30 mins or so of sun daily.

SLDragon - It's not necessarily "pre" MBD as much as a "type" of MBD (she referred to it as NSHP), basically he's in the process of consuming bone calcium for organ function, causing spinal collapse, but not yet to the point of rubberjaw and soft bones. No folding yet or any of the dire results of full blown MBD.

Yes, calcium shots were administered as well as hormone treatments. He drinks in the bath, and the critical care has a fair amount of water, so I think he's good on hydration. Still producing urates.

This was brought on by a combination of several things. The mouth infection impacted his diet pretty severely, the Mercury Vapor (Mega-Ray) was too hot and too narrow for him to take advantage of the full UVB output... and no telling what issues he had in the pet store before I got him with regards to lighting and diet.

He was in my care about a month before the MBD issues presented, he was taken to a vet immediately, and has been in treatment since then.

 

[SLDragon]

Ok - that makes a lot more sense, along with the shots given me much more confidence in what your vet is talking about (from a lay perspective of course)

 

[Woodsman]

I understand. You do have to be careful with vets and reptiles. The first vet we visited did not specialize in exotics, it wasn't a great scenario actually. Over the phone, the tech told me they could see Beardie, but when I got there he said he no longer did exotics but would help if he could. He missed a lot of things and I wonder what could have been prevented with better guidance.

That prompted me to call a local Reptile Rescue, they gave me a great recommendation of an exotic vet about 30 mins away. There, he got excellent care and the vet really seemed to know her stuff. She actually boarded him for 4 days to fully observe all of his symptoms and provide treatment. That's where he got is new diagnosis (it don't call it "official" since it can't be confirmed necessarily) and the calcium/hormone shots.

 

[SLDragon]

Do you know what the hormones used were?

 

[Woodsman]

Hmm, I do not. It was a bit of information overload, I suppose. I'm taking him for a follow-up after he goes through the calcium I got, in about another week. I can find out then and follow up.

 

[Woodsman]

So I continue updating things. Hopefully not adding to his stress. I added a reflector to the T8, my T5 is still on the way, apparently some issues getting it in from overseas caused a delay. In the meantime the reflector should help with how I had it set up so I can direct the angle a bit. Not a ton of mounting options for this fixture due to it's size and shape. Hopefully the T5 gets here soon so I can mount it well above him.

The Mercury Vapor is gone for now. More trouble than it's worth for this size enclosure. Substrate mat is gone (too porous), tile in place.

From an earlier suggestion, I made a little easy-access basking platform out of some 1/2" wood I found in my garage. Maybe this will encourage him to stay warm.