Issues continue, lots of questions.

[Woodsman]

I'll try to keep this a concise as I can, but lots of questions and info here.

My Beardie (who's name is Beardie - 8 year old names lol) had trouble eating since I got him. He's a baby, very small, maybe 7-8 inches total length, probably only a couple months old when I got him. I posted a thread a while back regarding this, and eventually I found that he liked dubias, and thought all was well.

His eating slowly declined again over the following days, to the point where he ate maybe one or two a day.

Eventually, he started stumbling, had issues moving his legs, and couldn't feed himself. It looks neurological, he'd dive for a roach, miss entirely, and then proceed to "chew" as though he was eating the roach he didn't catch.

I immediately took him to the vet. He weighed in at around 12g, the vet was very concerned about how skinny he was, and told me calories were urgent right now. His fecal showed very high cocclidae, and they also found what looked to be a small infection on his tongue. They were unable to determine if it was the tongue infection or the parasites that killed his appetite, but obviously one of the two sent him spiraling down into poor health from malnutrition. No appetite > not enough calcium and vitamins > bone and nervous problems.

They filled him up on some baby food, gave me some Albon to dose 1x per day for 5 days, as well as some mouthwash. I was instructed to feed him baby food daily as well prior to using the mouthwash, because he may not take food afterwards.

It's day four of treatment. I give him the Albon in the morning and some Pedialyte (mixed with water at 1:3). In the afternoon at bath time, I feed him... He takes the squash baby food pretty well, but the chicken is hard to get into the pipette, so I have to spoon it in. I've also been feeding him the "Fluker's Repti-Boost" which he seems to really enjoy. I've been adding "Benebac Bird and Reptile" probiotics to his food as well.

The poor guy is so stressed from all this... I wish I acted sooner. It's hard to discern what is stress from the new environment, what is normal, what to do when things go wrong...

Obviously this has me freaked out on what I'm doing wrong... what brought all this on... so I'm trying to fix too many things at once. I just need some help.

TL;DR

1. Sick beardie, prescribed Albon and mouthwash for parasites and mouth infection
2. He cannot eat on his own, so I'm feeding him baby food daily mixed with Benebac. Also feeding him Repti-Boost and hydrating with Pedialyte.
3. He's been on treatment for 4 days.

His enclosure:
1. UVB is a Mega-Ray MVB, basking spot is around 108F.
2. Cool side has a halogen bulb which keeps it at 85F.
3. He has a hide on the cool side, a small cave.

Concerns - with the MVB, it looks like he needs to be DIRECTLY under it to get the benefits. The problem is the higher I raise it, the less UVB he'll get. It's 14" over his basking area now, but he still finds it a bit too hot and seems to bask right outside the center, where it's only about 100F. If I raise it up to make the center 100F, it's too far above him for UVB benefits. I think this may be the beginning of his decline... improper UVB lead to decrease in appetite and stumblng, maybe causing him to recklessly bit his tongue... etc etc... Because of this, I added a ReptiSun 10.0 flourescent tube in the back of his tank today.

Questions:
Since I added the ReptiSun, should I remove the MVB and use the halogen as a basking bulb? Will this be too much UVB using both?
Can I get any feedback on my treatment, and if this seems excessive or not enough? Am I going to kill him from stress of treatment?
Can I feed him only the Repti-Boost during treatment instead of the baby food? He likes it, it's easy to feed him, and it seems to contain much of what he needs.

Thanks for bearing with me through all of that text. I'm just not sure what to do. I really did try to research and get everything perfect before I got him. It may be too little too late, but I want to fight for him. I'll post some pics of his updated setup shortly.

 

[Woodsman]

This is how his enclosure is set up as of today. The lamp on the right is the MVB. The Reptisun in back was just added. UVB overkill? I also taped up the rocks and mat with masking tape so he can't fall back there and food can't escape. This was poorly thought out, and his larger enclosure will be done differently:



Here he is, poor guy:

 

[Lovmybeardie]

I am sorry to hear and see beardie is not doing well.
Your lights def need to be closer to him for sure.
If you can get the basking bulb closer and can get the temp to 110 one the warm side of the terrarium( which is what the temp should be about for baby beardie) then yes the basking bulb will be fine for heat during the day. As for the UVB he needs to be able to get 6 inch from the UVB tube. The tube is much better UVB and also covers more area of his terrarium.
Also as for the hide ( which not all beardie a use) I have mine just outside the heat more so on the cooler side.
Now as for the night sleep i have a ceramic heat admitter on the far side where mine sleeps do to them being little.

From all the reading i have done" I think you should continue the baby food" someone correct me if I am wrong. Make sure you keep him hydrated. There is a lot of water in the baby food so that should help.

 

[Woodsman]

I have had the basking spot as high as 110F, but he won't bask in the hot part (where all the UVB is). It's actually right at 110F at 12" above - which is perfect height for the Mercury Vapor. The problem is, he seems to like it around 105F, but if I do that, the MVB is too far away for adequate UVB - that's what lead me to add the ReptiSun 10.0. I figured if I raised the MVB, I could supplement with the additional Reptisun.

6" from the ReptiSun you say? Right now it's 12". Sigh, not sure I can pull that off. He's simply too weak to climb up anything to get closer to the bulb. The only choice is lower it down.

Do you think I should keep both bulbs due to his inability to climb and get closer? Should I still lower the Reptisun even though he has the supplemental MVB?

Just not sure what to do, I have the bulbs to pump quite a bit of UVB into a 20g tank.

 

[Woodsman]

And on the baby food, I'm hoping to just be able to feed him Repta+boost, since he actually seems to enjoy it. It does have water in it, it's mixed with 1cc of water (I'm mixing it with pedialyte) and also giving him an additional cc of Pedialyte in the morning with his medicine.

I'm more wondering about the nutritional content of the product vs baby foods. It's not a problem feeding him the squash, but the chicken is too chunky to fit in the pipette, and I have to feed it to him with a small plastic spoon. He does NOT like that at all.

This is all temporary as well, hopefully. Here's the product, and the nutritional content is in the images on the side:

http://www.amazon.com/Fluker-Labs-Insectivore-Carnivore-Supplement/dp/B000634CL4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

 

[Lovmybeardie]

My tank is very different then yours more shallow and long then tall.... Would you like be to send a pic of that would help.
I am so sorry that he is to week to climb was thinking is there anyway to build a platform to raise the whole bottom up some? That way you would only have to use the UVB and basking light.
I am just not sure of have two UBVs answer and I hope someone else jumps on here with more knowledge

Maybe just how the picture is showing it but is the UVB light shinning down or out?

As for the food thing I am not 100% on that either and don't want to give uncertain advice.
I am sorry I am not much help with it all.

Also it so great that he is still eating and enjoying! That will help him get better quickly. You seem to be keeping him hydrated as well! You are doing a great job!

 

[Woodsman]

It's in a GE fixture, so there's no reflector or anything. It's basically just "exposed" in the back of the tank, so shines out and down. It's an 18", I wanted something that could fit inside the tank to not obstruct the basking bulb. It can be lowered down, maybe I should scrap the Mega-Ray MVB and just lower the ReptiSun 10.0 down lower. The Halogen is on a dimmer to control temp on the cool side, I can always turn that up for basking and get a second Halogen.

Sigh... just don't know. I want to ensure the UVB is in order, as I theorize that's what went wrong from the beginning.

I am in the process of building a 48x24 enclosure, but it won't be done for several weeks (ordering pieces, curing sealed materials, etc). Most of these issues will be resolved then, but until then I have to make due.

Really sucks, I really felt like I had all my ducks in a row for this little guy. Researched for days, tried to order the best of the best of what he needed. Had his tank and temps set up days before I got him. Now he's barely hanging on and I can't help but feel responsible.

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....sorry about poor little Beard. I think that you should have adequate uvb between the 2 bulbs. Something else you can do if the temps. are above 70 is to take him out in the sun, not in a glass tank [ they overheat ] but set him on your lap. The Repta boost is fine, you could make a smoothie once in a while too out of greens and if you could get some Critical Care formula from your vet that would help as well. A bit of Pedialyte once a day is fine, but don't go overboard with it. Hopefully with the new bulb and possibly some time in the sun you'll see some improvement. Albon is pretty harsh, so if his fecal comes back showing that there is still coccidia you might ask for Ponazuril rather than dosing with Albon again. Ponazuril generally works in only 2-3 doses.

 

[Lovmybeardie]

Yes taking him in out in the sun! Forgot about that idea, we do that also with ours it's awesome for them.
Please don't beat yourself up!! You are doing a great job and all you can do! Keep it up he will turn around.
The new tanks sounds great as well!

 

[Woodsman]

I made some adjustments to his lighting situation, and lowered the Reptisun down to within 6-8" of where he basks:



Dead center of his MVB gets up to around 108F (surface). If he is dead center to the MVB, he's around 7-8" from the Reptisun. I think that's a good combo since the Mega-Ray is 15" above the spot right now, and he tends to bask just outside of the "hot spot."

He clearly appreciates it so far:



You can see there he's just slightly off center from the main beam, I guess that's his thing... and probably why the Mega-Ray gave me issues. He just wouldn't stay directly under it where all the good UVB is.

Other good news, he ate on his own this morning! One roach and one Phoenix Worm! Small victory... not much but he's getting there.

His back legs are still partially paralyzed, he can't really move them from the knee, only from the hip. But that's better, they were completely limp days ago. I'll keep updating!

 

[Lovmybeardie]

Awe he is in great care! So happy he had some food on his own!
So happy he is loving the adjustments! Where you able to take him in the sun today ( of course only if it is warm not sure where you live)

Yes def keep us posted!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I think that using the Megaray in combination with the Reptisun 10 tube bulb is fine.
Since the tube bulb is mounted on the back wall, I would recommend getting a fixture that goes over it to help direct it more downwards towards him. How it is mounted, a lot of the UVB will refract outwards & away from him. Or, you could consider mounting it underneath of the screen directly overhead also.
It sounds like he is doing much better now with the UVB closer to him, especially now that he has eaten. He will start to become more confident when he can feed himself, too.
I hope that he continues to get better! He is a tiny thing. Let us know how he is doing!

Tracie

 

[Woodsman]

Yeah I will definitely optimize the setup. It's all-out emergency mode right now... just doing whatever I can as quickly as I can.

The pics don't really indicate how dire it really is, he has a badly infected tongue (it's clearing up nicely with treatment) and has major trouble eating. He is also experiencing paralysis in his legs, he sort of stumbles like he's drunk and clearly cannot move his lower joints ("elbows" and "wrists").

His front legs seem to be recovering, he's getting more of an upright posture now, but his back legs are still pretty limp with some movement in his hip joints.

This is really why I chose the fixture, he simply can't climb up high enough for an overhead fixture and the only ones available immediately (that will fit down inside the tank) are the "under cabinet" slimline ones like I have gotten. The "normal" aquarium fixtures don't work, as I can't get them close enough to him.

I'm looking for better solutions... I think he needs a more shallow, longer tank. He's in a 20g standard, a 20g long would be better and would allow for better light options. I'm building a nice big enclosure, but I thought I had more time... never thought things would get so bad.

This is, of course, if light is even the problem. Fingers crossed... working hard to save him, and seeing progress little by little. There's a light at the end of the tunnel... but it sure seems like a long tunnel

 

[SLDragon]

I agree, you need to get a reflector on the light. A high output T5 tube in a reflector would suit you as they are designed to be used around 12"-14" away from the animal. Arcadia do a 14% one. Make sure there are plenty of places he can still get shade as well.

I'd probably let the cooler end get cooler and more shaded by removing the halogen, i doubt it's needed.

I've read a few recent recommendations of Verm-x to help with gut flora, it may be worth a look, i don't know how it compares to benebac tbh.

ETA: You need to be careful with lowering the tube, especially on a back wall. if light is coming at the lizard side on, rather than above it can cause damage to the eyes (i wonder whether it would also cause lizards to try and seek shade more than is desirable too?)

 

[Woodsman]

That's an interesting thought about eye damage. Sigh, so many factors to consider!

I'm hoping against hope that he will at least regain some strength soon and I can return the light to top-mount in a traditional fixture and add a stick or ledge for him to climb on and reach basking temps. Temp-wise, the cool side is in the mid 80s. High 70s without the halogen (it's on a dimmer, and turned way down to just bump the temp up slightly). Inside his "hide" it's high 70s, he does spend a bit of time in there. I feel like the temps vary pretty well for such a small enclosure.

If things don't improve, a T5 and reflector will be my next choice. I wanted to get T5s for his new enclosure anyway, so it will be nice to have the ballasts and bulbs ready for that transition, assuming he makes it that long.

So far he has little "glimpses" of improvement. I'll see him gain some mobility for split seconds. He's getting better about eating on his own as well, and the sores on his tongue are really starting to clear up.