HELP PLEASE

[rebelliousk]

Hi all.

About 2 weeks ago, I bought 2 baby bearded dragons. I got the tank set up by a reptile store. And my one baby is fine, active and running around and eating very well! The second one from about day 4 I saw small issues with the one but went away, so after about a week or so I took him to the reptile shop and the guy there said it looked like he has ear infection, cause he wobbles when he walks, the membranes in his ears are dark almost a black. And he constantly drops his head down. Won't chase after crickets unless they run past his head then he tries to grab them and doesn't always succeed. The guy at the reptile store says he is too small to give antibiotics to, so best is to give him a calcium boost by making a paste with calcium powder and water. I did that and kinda got better started eating better and running around so I didn't wanna go overboard with calcium paste, left it for abit. Woke up this morning and saw he is barely eating at all, his head is constantly down, and sometimes when I hold him, he does tucks his head against my fingers and runs literally around like a full circle. And next minute he just let's go and falls on off my hand onto the bed and lands on his back and after like a second he goes onto his stomach again. I'm clueless.....help please!!!!!

 

[pogvitt]

the only thing to do now is take him to a herp vet - the vet will be better informed on treatment options for this condition.

 

[rebelliousk]

Whats a herp vet and what condition is it? Is it very serious?

 

[diamc]

Hi, welcome to the forum. :wave:

Sorry to hear that one of your babies isn't acting right. If you could give us all the info regarding your setup, that will help us to rule things out and save time in the long run.

Please give us the wattage of your basking bulb, the make & type of UVB (coil, compact, strip fluorescent), what the temps are, what type of thermometer you're using (digital strip, round gauge, temp gun, digital with long wire & probe end), what substrate is on the bottom of the tank? Also, what have you been feeding them besides crickets, how often are you dusting with calcium & vitamins? The more info you can share, the better.

A herp vet is a reptile vet.

 

[rebelliousk]

Thanx a lot. Firstly, just wanna mention I'm from south africa.

I don't know wat specs the lights are, as the reptile store put them in for me, but the white light is coiled (Isn't that the basking light? And the uvb light is red and is only put on at night for like 3 or so hours! The hottest it normally gets is 30 C(83 F or so) , coldest is 20 C(72 F). I would say its a round gauge one. The reptile store gave me calci sand. That's what its called. They eat crickets and meal worms. Normally try feed them 1 or 2 meal worms before crickets. The sick one( maximus) has only had one meal worm ever and never again, other one( havana) loves the meal worms. We have to take havana out so maximus can eat coz she eats so much and it looks as though he lazy or something, refuses to chase the crickets. Feed them bout 3 times a day 4 or so crickets at a time. I dust the crickets everyday with calcium before feeding. Vitamins, no one said anything to me bout vitamins.

Really worried bout him and why he acts so strange and the other one is perfect! He also hardly ever climbs his tree, havana will always climb it. She almost always up there.

Ok cool, thanx hey. Don't mean to sound ignorant, just new to this all.

 

[wckdbtch]

Hey there, good to see a fellow South African!

 

[rebelliousk]

Hey. It is good to see a fellow south african here.

Got any info on my beardie baby's problem? Sorry just trying to find anything at all that's wrong with him?

 

[wckdbtch]

I'll get you some info when I'm on the PC tomorrow. We'll find you a good vet in
your area, as well as the specs on your set up.

 

[wckdbtch]

Hi there, I'm back! In which area are you? I've got a few numbers for reptile vets in SA, but need to know where you are. Also, if you can maybe check on the light bulb/tube for a description.

I'm not sure if the other members would agree with me, but firstly I would separate the two dragons, either with a divider of some sorts or another enclosure altogether. Secondly, I'd get rid of the sand. These issues are probably not related to the running in circles and being off-balance, but I think it would give your babies the best chance of both being happy and healthy.

With regards to your setup, if you can let me know where you bought it from, I can check if I can find out what they gave you.

PS: The place I use for online supplies is http://www.reptilecity.co.za/catalog/. Their service and products are top notch. Otherwise, if you are close to a Pet City (I go to the one in Montana, Pretoria), they also have a very good range.

 

[minipumpkin]

Hey, sorry to hear that your dragons not too well,
something doesnt sound right about your set up,
First off the lighting doesnt sound right the white bulb should be your uvb, they are better if they are tube lighting, the red one sounds like your heat spot lighting. you should get a basking spot light, this will provide the heat and help the dragon to digest food. The temps are nearly there the hottest needs to be 100-105f and the coolest should be 70-80f. What kind of thermometer are you using?
The dragons will need vitamins on their food every few days. Change the calcium sand flooring to something like tiles or lino flooring as the dragons could eat this and become impacted.
You should consider taken him to the vet,
sometimes keeping dragons housed together doesnt work out you could try seperating them to see if theres any improvement...
Can you post a picture of your set up.
Heres a picture of mine as an idea to what ours is like

The uvb light is in the top left and the spot light is in the top right... we have a heat mat on the back wall for night time when it gets cooler.
What is your night time temp?

Hope this helps

 

[rebelliousk]

Hi. What's ur email, coz I'm running off my blackberry and can email pics. Thanx man.

 

[diamc]

Thanks for answering the questions. Unfortunately, the pet store hasn't given you a good setup so we are here to help get everything straightened out for you babies so I'm going to break things down for you.

The coil bulb is actually the UVB and they don't throw out hardly any heat at all, they only get slightly warm. There have been multiple issues associated with the coil UVB's from eye issues to lethargy, imbalance issues, etc. So, I would recommend that you turn it off immediately to see if the problems with the sickly beardie subside. In the meantime, I would order this UVB, I found it on the site that the other member here posted: http://www.reptilecity.co.za/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=30_63&products_id=606 This is the best UVB you can get in your area and most of us in the U.S. use it too. For the hood, you can go to any department store and buy a standard fluorescent light, remove the plastic cover and the bulb that comes with it, pop in the UVB and LEAVE the plastic cover off. When you get the strip fluorescent UVB, it should be placed right alongside a bright white basking bulb and be 6 to 8" from your beardies.

The red bulb is the heat bulb but we don't recommend using colored bulbs as they are hard on their eyes and they do much better with a bright white basking bulb. If you let us know what size tank you're using or what the dimensions are, it will give us a better idea of what wattage might be best suited for the appropriate temps. The basking temp should be 100 to 110 and the cool side 78 to 82 so it's critical that you get those temps up or they won't be able to digest properly and all sorts of health issues will exacerbate. Until you give us the size of the tank, you could put a 40 watt household light bulb in so that will help give them a little heat.

The round gauge thermometers are inaccurate and can be 20 degrees off either way. The only 2 ways to get accurate readings are with either an infrared temperature gun or a digital thermometer with a long wire & probe end. It's critical that you get a good way to read temps asap.

Calci-sand is DEADLY. It contains calcium so it encourages them to lick it, then when they do, it builds up and hardens in their bodies like cement, making it impossible to pass. Many beardies have died from using it. Please remove it immediately and you can even use paper towels for now. NON-adhesive shelf liner, slate tiles, reptile carpeting are all other much safer options and we always recommend a solid substrate like one of those because babies lick everything so the chance of impaction is very high.

Mealworms are also a risk impaction due to their chitin shell and don't really have any nutritional value. Crickets are fine but you have to make sure that the cricket isn't any larger than the space between their eyes. Other recommended feeders are phoenix worms (repti-worms), baby horn worms, silk worms or roaches.

Regarding the supplements, a babies feeders should be dusted with calcium WITH D3 but phosphorus-free 5 days a wk but only 1 feeding a day and with vitamins the other 2 days a wk but only 1 feeding a day. What brand calcium are you using now?
What greens are you offering them now? Here's a site that shows the best green/veggies/fruits to feed: http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html

It actually would be a good idea to separate them so that the weaker one can build strength and have all the food it wants to eat and before dominance issues start. How old are they or what is their length from nose to tip of tail?

To sum it up, I think the coil UVB and too low of temps are the biggest issues right now and probably the main reason for the behavior that you're seeing. So, some changes need to be made ASAP. Babies are very particular with their needs and can go downhill very quickly so the sooner you make these changes, the better. Until the one baby is eating on his own and acting better, it would be a good idea to pick up some chicken or turkey baby food as well as squash baby food. Mix a little of both together and dilute with a little water, heat the mixture in the microwave to take the chill off, then use a plastic medicine dropper to put drops on his nose that he will hopefully lick off. That will help give him a much needed boost.

If you have any questions, please let us know and be sure to keep us updated on how they are doing.

edit** sorry minipumpkin, looks like we were posting at the same time.

 

[minipumpkin]

sent in private message

 

[minipumpkin]

this is rebelliousk's set up, i put it on here so everyone can help out.

first you need to get a basking lamp where the temp gets between 100-105f
then a you need to get a uvb tube not a coil. repti-sun 10.0 or arcardia 12
the sand, i would get rid of it as your beardie could eat it and get impacted.

this is my old set up just to give you an idea, i dont use sand anymore and i have a 4x2x2 foot viv, yours will be ok for a while but you will have to upgrade soon.

 

[diamc]

Thanks for posting those pictures.

To sum it up, I think the coil UVB (you need a Repti-Sun 10.0 fluorescent that I posted the link for) and too low of temps are the biggest issues right now and probably the main reason for the behavior that you're seeing. Also, changing the substrate to a solid one. So, some changes need to be made ASAP. Babies are very particular with their needs and can go downhill very quickly so the sooner you make these changes, the better. Until the one baby is eating on his own and acting better, it would be a good idea to pick up some chicken or turkey baby food as well as squash baby food. Mix a little of both together and dilute with a little water, heat the mixture in the microwave to take the chill off, then use a plastic medicine dropper to put drops on his nose that he will hopefully lick off. That will help give him a much needed boost.